Merikle I need your help!

Can you do the color genetic thing on my horse again? Actually its for Vegas' brother.

He and I cant decide what color he is going to be. Im thinking that he will not roan. Im starting to wonder if he will be a smutty bucksin, grulla, or a bay. Its driving me insane... .

lol sure, pictures would help, and sire and dam colors.

Most likely if he is over a year old, he will not roan out. Usually they do it within the first couple months of life, up to when they are a year old

Well both parents are blue roans, and this is the first non roan those two have thrown.

I was thinking buckskin or a bay because of the black that they all share. Legs, mane, and tails. But I could seriously be wayyyy off track with that one.

Heres a somewhat newer pic of Sterling, since weve been having warmer weather, his hips, bootie, shoulders, and barrel are turning tan-ish. More tan than what is in this pic. Its hard to tell in this one, but is leg are very black.

I put in the color calculator breeding 2 blue roans together and it lists these colors as the outcome


70% blue roan
23% black
4% chestnut roan
1% chestnut

Looks buckskin to me.. Will likey change colors a few times..

Gentically, he cannot be buckskin or bay. Blue roans are a black horse (black horses do not carrie the agouti modifier or they would be bays ) with the roan gene. A Buckskin is a black based horse, with agouti as well as one copy of the creme gene, so unless one or both of the parents was actually a smokey blue roan, it is impossible for him to be buckskin, not to mention the lack of the agouti from both parents. Basically the same thing for bays as well, this colts parents lack the agouti modifier, therefore cannot produce a bay foal.

To me, he looks like a "in the middle stage" black. If he has not roaned out already, I highly doubt he will roan.

But he also kind of reminds me of a grullo, or a smokey black. Have these two parents ever thrown a dilute foal together? one of them could possibly carry a creme gene, and you most likely would never notice it. Does either parent have the dun gene? do they show any of the primative markings?

But, I would say he will turn black.

I think he is/looks more to be a grullo then a smokey black. The missing piece would be the recessive/dominant genes IE red factor Ee/EE and Roan Rr/rr.

According to the color calculator I use the color choices listed would be what he is. That is IF the parents are true blue roans to begin with which B&B says they are.

edited to add looking at the possibilties he can't possibly be a grullo so he has to be either a black, chestnut roan chestnut or blue roan. Like Merikle said though he most likely is black given the parents colors.

Tara wrote:

I think he is/looks more to be a grullo then a smokey black. The missing piece would be the recessive/dominant genes IE red factor Ee/EE and Roan Rr/rr.

According to the color calculator I use the color choices listed would be what he is. That is IF the parents are true blue roans to begin with which B&B says they are.

edited to add looking at the possibilties he can't possibly be a grullo so he has to be either a black, chestnut roan chestnut or blue roan. Like Merikle said though he most likely is black given the parents colors.

The only thing with smokey blacks, is that more often than not, you cant see any difference between a true black, and a smokey black. Often people find out through offspring, when they are mated to another horse who does not carry a creme gene, and they throw a foal with a creme gene. The creme on a black based horse with no agouti, CAN be visible, making their fur lighter than it should be, however, it also CAN NOT be visible, and make them look very simmilar to other black horses without a creme gene.

Unless one of the parents was in fact a grullo roan, or a smokey blue roan, he cannot possibly be either smokey black, or grullo. The color genetics are simply not there.

However since a the creme gene can be hidden so well, the only other way to tell is if this pair has ever thrown any offspring with a creme gene. That or they could have them tested (unlikely, I know).

I still say he is a confused little black/ish boy lol

Thanks ya'll, this colts color is driving me up the wall.

I also wanted to know if you noticed the leg barring he has. In this pic you can only see the left leg, but he has it on all four legs. Im also curious to know where that came from. He also has a darker stripe down to the top of his tail, you can barely see it but it is darker than his other hair. To me that sounds like dun factors, but he doesnt have that color. Maybe he is just all of those other colors mixed together lol.

Bucks&Blues wrote:

Thanks ya'll, this colts color is driving me up the wall.

I also wanted to know if you noticed the leg barring he has. In this pic you can only see the left leg, but he has it on all four legs. Im also curious to know where that came from. He also has a darker stripe down to the top of his tail, you can barely see it but it is darker than his other hair. To me that sounds like dun factors, but he doesnt have that color. Maybe he is just all of those other colors mixed together lol.

Could you take pictures of his legs for me? Does he have a dorsal?

In order to have dun factor (or primitive markings) (which since he is black based, he would be "grullo") he would NEED atleast ONE parent with a dun gene. So if his parents bred together have never thrown a baby with any dun characteristics, and neither of them look to be affected by the dun gene. Then I would say that possibly his sire, is not his sire......?

Do some digging, and find out if either parents do have dun factoring, or have ever thrown a dun foal when bred together or with another mate who does NOT carry the dun gene, and then I will help you go from there.

But with that black face, he sure does look like a grullo...

Wow, Right over the top of my head! So do you go with Palomino bred to a sorrel with palomino back grounds, that it is 50/50 chance for palomino or sorrel? Ive heard it depends on the color back ground? I m clueless when it comes to this stuff!

My filly changed color three times. Will be intersting to see how this one turns out. Keep us posted.. We shall see if the Gentics Gods are right

I will try to get some better pics, hes awful fuzzy still, but shedding like crazy.

He does have what I would call a faint dorsal stripe, but it is just a tad darker than his body color.

I know his sire has thrown a dun, at least two times that I know of. ANd those babies had real noticeable dun factors, not as faint as Sterlings are.

Vegas also had a dorsal stripe, but it started to fade as she matured, now the only mark left on her is this little line that goes maybe 4 inches up from the top of her tail.

I dont think he will roan either, but I hate playing the guessing game, it makes me crazy .

Oh I have some pics that might help, from when he completely dropped the baby hair, then we went into cold weather so he fuzzed up. These might help.



I found this chest shot, but I didnt have any close ups of his knees, he was still wild as a buck and I could barely touch him.

I will try to get some clear leg shots tonight.

Lol, What are the chances of them throwing a brindle?

That is an entertaining question!

did you guys read the article about brindles in the last America's Horse Magazine? It was very interesting.

Yes, I did and aren't they something else, What would you reg. them as in AQHA. They sure don't have that color listed on the paper work do they?

The 2 brindles in the mag were both reg as red duns.
Sterling is almost the same color as Tom. He's registered as a buckskin, but most people out here call him a grulla

Bucks&Blues wrote:

Lol, What are the chances of them throwing a brindle?

That is an entertaining question!

The Brindle coloring is EXTREMELY unique... and no, they dont just have it in areas, it is all over their body.

I am thinking he looks pretty grullo... however would need to see a dorsal (not just a mock dorsal (countershading) ) and some other primitive markings... then you might want to do some back tracking, as either one of his parents is not his parent, or one of them is in fact a grullo roan.

The two horses in the magazine both resulted from a twin pregnancy where one twin had absorbed the other. Both horses had two completely different sets of DNA. The stud, I believe, had both male and female DNA because the twins were opposite sex. It said brindle to brindle crosses almost never result in a brindle foal.