Ok Merikle, one more question for you

What would a blue roan and a palomino possibly throw? My friend bred her mare, a very pale palomino, to Vegas' sire. She was asking me what they might have, but we all know Im definately not the color genetics expert.

Okay, here's a genetics question for you. My gray mare is a flea bitten gray. She is out of a gray and by a sorrel or vice versa...can't remember. Her tail is mixed in color, but her mane is dark and even though she doesn't have black legs, the back of her legs are black. Would her base color probably be black or sorrel?

Bucks&Blues wrote:

What would a blue roan and a palomino possibly throw? My friend bred her mare, a very pale palomino, to Vegas' sire. She was asking me what they might have, but we all know Im definately not the color genetics expert.

Alright, Palomino to Blue roan (provided he isnt a grullo roan ) And I will calculate this as if the palomino is not carrying agouti. If she is add Buckskin, Buckskin roan, Bay, and Bay Roan to the list.

Palomino
Smokey black
Chestnut/sorrel
Black
Palomino Roan
Smokey Black roan
Red roan
blue roan

denibun wrote:

Okay, here's a genetics question for you. My gray mare is a flea bitten gray. She is out of a gray and by a sorrel or vice versa...can't remember. Her tail is mixed in color, but her mane is dark and even though she doesn't have black legs, the back of her legs are black. Would her base color probably be black or sorrel?

She could also be bay.... To know her base, you have to know the gray parents base color. She could be bay based, black based, heck even buckskin based, until you know what her grey parents base color was, you can't really know.

Does it matter that the mare is a very pale palomino color instead of the golden color? Does that mean she has a dilute jean?

Ok, no more color question, I promise.

Natasha-
Were you on the AQHA forums? I think I remember seeing that picture posted on there.

Ok, my turn!!!

What do you all consider this mare's coat pattern? Sabino overo maybe?

Yes a sabino overo

Woohoo! Thanks Tara! And Natasha, that cc link rocks! If I did it right, I think Bella and Phenom have a decent shot at color, cross your fingers! GAWD! I'm so excited, big storm tonight, maybe a baby???

ok so what color is a true seal (sp) brown considered since it isn't listed. The horse is dark almost black with brown muzzle, flank, around eyes and ears. By the defination a true brown. This is a color that many people in fact most people I see list their horses as black however they really aren't by my defination a black horse or am I mistaken.

Bucks&Blues wrote:

Does it matter that the mare is a very pale palomino color instead of the golden color? Does that mean she has a dilute jean?

Ok, no more color question, I promise.

Natasha-
Were you on the AQHA forums? I think I remember seeing that picture posted on there.

LOL oh no worries, I have to use this knowledge somewhere! lol

Some say that the shade of the sorrel effects the shade of the palomino.... however, I think its more on a individual basis, ie, a foal that would have been a darker chestnut if it didnt have the creme gene, would be a more golden color.

If she is in fact a palomino, no, the shade does not matter as they still carry the creme (or dilute) gene.

PHENOMADACIOUS wrote:

Ok, my turn!!!

What do you all consider this mare's coat pattern? Sabino overo maybe?

Yes the mare looks to be a sabino overo. Excessive facial white and leg white is one of the indicators. They also usually have body spots on their bellies, and can look like roan or speckled areas. Also white areas with colored smaller spots in them are an indicator..... also their white markings tend to have narrow extensions up the leg or down the throat and partially blue eyes are common.

PHENOMADACIOUS wrote:

Woohoo! Thanks Tara! And Natasha, that cc link rocks! If I did it right, I think Bella and Phenom have a decent shot at color, cross your fingers! GAWD! I'm so excited, big storm tonight, maybe a baby???

its about a 50/50 Chance for color... but the foal could not get the overo pattern, and still get the sabino. Like clydesdales (who often carry the sabino pattern) they have limited white compared to a paint, but the foal still may be eligible for regular paint papers.

Lynn M. wrote:

ok so what color is a true seal (sp) brown considered since it isn't listed. The horse is dark almost black with brown muzzle, flank, around eyes and ears. By the defination a true brown. This is a color that many people in fact most people I see list their horses as black however they really aren't by my defination a black horse or am I mistaken.

Some horses that look like they are not quite a true black, when tested are in fact a true black. However sometimes they are brown.

here is the "genetic codes"

In order of Dominance
A+ is wild bay
A is bay
At (or @) is brown
a is none (black)

thank you she has 4 foals registered black I haven't seen them so I wasn't sure if that was legit.... maybe it is hope so!

>>but the foal could not get the overo pattern, and still get the sabino<<

What do you mean by this Merikle? I am confused are you saying that since Kelly's mare is a sabino paint bred to a QH stallion that the foal can't be the same patterned sabino as the mother but only either a breeding stock or a normal overo paint?

I was confused too...

I read it when she said the foal could not get... that it is a possibility that the foal could be sabino without being overo not that it couldn't be a sabino overo.

Reading, Reading. Gosh, What happened to ABC and 123?

denibun wrote:

I read it when she said the foal could not get... that it is a possibility that the foal could be sabino without being overo not that it couldn't be a sabino overo.

Exactly!!! lol

The foal could be a solid with sabino pattern. or a Sabino Overo

Merikle Waters wrote:

denibun wrote:

I read it when she said the foal could not get... that it is a possibility that the foal could be sabino without being overo not that it couldn't be a sabino overo.

Exactly!!! lol

The foal could be a solid with sabino pattern. or a Sabino Overo

>>but the foal could not get the overo pattern, and still get the sabino<<

well the way you posted it above was clear as mud LOL.

I would call a *solid* who had alot of white hairs in its body roaning not a sabino though, to me they are different or am I wrong? Like I had a quarter mare who had alot of white hairs in her flank area and barrel but I and anyone I knew just called it roaning not to be confused with a roan mind you.

Tara wrote:

Merikle Waters wrote:

denibun wrote:

I read it when she said the foal could not get... that it is a possibility that the foal could be sabino without being overo not that it couldn't be a sabino overo.

Exactly!!! lol

The foal could be a solid with sabino pattern. or a Sabino Overo

>>but the foal could not get the overo pattern, and still get the sabino<<

well the way you posted it above was clear as mud LOL.

I would call a *solid* who had alot of white hairs in its body roaning not a sabino though, to me they are different or am I wrong? Like I had a quarter mare who had alot of white hairs in her flank area and barrel but I and anyone I knew just called it roaning not to be confused with a roan mind you.

yes mixed white hairs would be roaning, however, sabino is a pattern. High socks, excessive facial white etc. it is NOT roaning.

http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/sabino.htm

Clydsedales are a prime example of a sabino solid horse. They carry the sabino pattern and pass it onto their offspring. However they are not paint/pinto. For example, the budweiser Clydesdales.... they carry and almost always express the almost minimal sabino pattern, eg. high white socks, belly spots, excessive facial white, lip spots, spots under jaw etc.

However there is also from minimal to extreme expressions of the sabino pattern, ranging from the horses such as the budweiser clydesdales to almost all white.

Arabians can also carry this pattern, and there are select breeding operations dedicated to producing sabino Arabians (purebred ones at that!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabino_horse

Sabino is a color spotting pattern in horses that is usually recognized as a form of pinto horse color. A sabino horse has a dark base coat with a unique overlying spotting pattern. It is one of the most confusing colors to explain because a wide range of patterns are considered acceptable. Further, the polygenic combination of genes that produce this color pattern is not yet fully understood and is hotly debated by both researchers and horse breeders.
One of the many possible genes that creates the Sabino pattern, the Sabino (SB1) gene, now can be detected by a DNA test.[1]

This link explains more about how clydesdales carry this, yet they are usually solid.


Hope this explains what I mean, and what sabino truely is.

Here is my APHA sabino Filly.... You would not think she would get the pattern but both her and her twin sister recieved the sabino pattern, most likely from their AQHA SOLID dam.

Quote :

Clydsedales are a prime example of a sabino solid horse.

How do they compare to a "splashed white overo" ? or are they the same thing? The same mare "Bella" had a splashed white overo once when she was bred to a solid... then the next time she was bred to a solid she had the baby she's pictured with on this tread... lets hope she keeps it up!

PHENOMADACIOUS wrote:

Quote :

Clydsedales are a prime example of a sabino solid horse.

How do they compare to a "splashed white overo" ? or are they the same thing? The same mare "Bella" had a splashed white overo once when she was bred to a solid... then the next time she was bred to a solid she had the baby she's pictured with on this tread... lets hope she keeps it up!

They can sometimes throw the sabino pattern they carry, and other times they don't. Its simple chance when it comes to which colors/patterns the foal does or does not recieve from their parents, Of course within the color combination restrictions the parents create for the foal.


Splashed white horses dont have the roaning, or lighting strikes up their knees. There are different patterns for sabino, with certain characteristics just as there is for splashed overo. If you look on APHA, or google Splashed overo, it will explain. If not..... I will come back in a bit to explain further... Right now I am waiting for some people to show up to possibly purchase my 2 yr old filly...