Elections...

Although I'm Canadian and we don't have the problems with illegals that you do, I agree, if people want to go to another country and work, do it legally.
We often hear about how barn managers like mexican workers cause they are hard workers and you can't get alot of Americans to work hard anymore. Well, if they are registering them, I don't see a problem if they can't get good workers locally. But knowingly hiring illegals simply because it's cheaper is wrong. You guys have a major problem there with people crossing the border. We have Mexican workers that a company imported up here cause they couldn't find people who wanted to work for cheap wages and minimal benefits. So we have apartments meant for 2 holding a dozen of them. They spend very little locally, only what they need to survive, and send the rest back home. Which doesn't really help our economy. But if we can't get locals to take the crap jobs, someones got to do it. The company paid out alot of money to get the mexicans up here. Would they have done it if they didn't have to? Maybe. If you talk to a white worker there, they will tell you they will be the 1st to get fired if there is a problem cause they are entitled to more benefits and pay raises, so bringing in a Mexican can be cheaper.

I think it's insulting to say that Americans aren't willing to work hard!!!!! That's what made our country what it is!!!!!!! I don't know a single American who doesn't work hard!!!!!!!!! Most make a lot less money than you think!!!!!!!! Myself included!!!!!!!!!! Many jobs aren't AVAILABLE to Americans!!!!!!!!! That slaughter house in Greeley, Cororado is a good example!!!!!!!! Monfort. They got caught with almost 50% of their workers illegal!!!!!! They didn't hire many Americans....And what they did was take the applications of Americans, then save them til an illegal alien came a long, and let the illegal use the SS#!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's how they finally got caught. Monfort is still in hot water over that. They tried to claim that they couldn't get Americans to work there..Yet, they were able to replace those illegals in less than a week!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a proven fact that the availability of illegal workers drive down wages for everyone. The difference is, the illegals know how to work the system so they can get gov't stuff too.

There's no doubt in my mind that the reason Canada doesn't have a problem with illegals is because it's nearly impossible to get the free gov't goodies up there....Especially if they don't speak English. You have to be Canadian to get the free stuff.

Everyone is bringing up really great points. I am open to immigrants coming in, but ONLY the legal way. Otherwise, in my book, they are criminals to start with.

As far as the middle class thing, there are a lot of contributing factors that make for living paycheck to paycheck, and yes, the main reason is debt. But, the question is, why is it neccesary for Americans to rack up debt (which is at an all time high) to live comfortably? Some of the anwsers to this lay within the housing market. For an average family to be able to live normally in the economic world, their home / living arrangements should not go over 30% of their annual budget. I know that the housing market it low right NOW, but it's not often going to drop as significantly as it is right now.

Another factor that was already brought up by Ragdoll. The thing is, while illegals will work for less,many Americans simply CANNOT afford to. If they take the jobs for such a low wage, they cannot afford their homes, plain and simple. I really know what makes the middle class live paycheck to paycheck, I'm just looking for the person who can start to anwser the questions of why it is neccesary to be in so much debt to live comfortably.

I hope none of you thought I was saying that I thought that Americans don't work hard. I'm saying that is what alot of people are using as an excuse for not hiring locally.
And I think a big reason we don't get as many illegals is simply our location. Why would a mexican come all the way here, where we have cold winters, when they can get jobs alot closer.
We have identity theft here too. Anyone can walk into a hospital with my medical # and get care. It's not hard. There was a woman near here who went to get her taxes done, waited for her refund and after quite awhile inquired as to where her check was. Apparently "she" had already received her refund and was now out of work and collecting welfare. It happens everywhere.

Different people have different reasons to go into credit card debt. Some people do it out of neccesity. Let's say you need to have a tooth pulled. I know for a fact that there are no dentists around here that let you make payments. Out comes the credit card. Some people just blow their credit on crap. I work with a gal like that. I know there are people who use their credit cards to go to horse shows....or buy horses....or tack.... Car repairs. If you don't have transpotation, you lose your job. There are as many reasons for credit card debt, as there are people. A good many people never pay the bill....Everyone else pays for that. The bank writes it off as a bad debt.


I am 100% for LEGAL immigration!!!!!!! I am 100% against people coming to my country illegally. People chose to come here illegally because they DON"T want to become Americans, and they can get gov't handouts if they just play the game right. These people will even loan out their kid's birth certs and SS#s!!!!!! They do it every day!!!!!!!!

Hang on to your hats.....The North American Allience is coming, and it will be about 10yrs...You can kiss the dollar goodbye!!!!!!! They have already designed the Amereo. Thank our Pres for making that deal with Mexico!!!!! Canada isn't going along with it yet, or we'd have it already. Check out the facts!!!!!!!!!! Some of it has already been minted in Denver.

I bet none of you have even heard of The Law Of The Sea Treaty!!!!! That would have given the United Nations control of EVERYTHING that happens on the oceans....And they would also have control of how/if a UN counrty could enforce their own laws!!!!!! Thank The Fates, it was voted down before Xmas. CHECK OUT THE FACTS!!!!!!!

As far as middle class not being able to "make it", I think you guys ought to check out Dave Ramsey... he has three books, of which I've read and they're great. If you budget for things, and live within your means, you don't have to pull out a credit card. Same thing as waiting on social security to take care of ya, or Medicare or Medicaid... budget for it, get ahead of the game, don't overspend.... you can tell what I'm doing lately, huh! HA!

I tell ya, though, to finally have sat down and figured everything, that in less than eight years, if we bite the bullet, don't go out to eat a lot, watch our expenses, plan for things, we could be totally debt free in eight years, including the house and land. Boy, you talking about putting a fire under me --- whew!!!!

As far as politics go, Ragdoll, you've very informed -- great for you! I've heard of those things, and some of the stuff you find out will scare the beegeebies out of ya.

As far as illegals taking our jobs that "we" don't want... Let's look at that. Say 50 years ago, our youth were outside and working and playing, not inside. I see so many parents wondering why their kids won't work, how come they won't pay for a car or this and that, well, DUH, you raised them like that! Not to say I haven't messed up, too, but if all of us parents made it to where our children saved up for their own vehicles, less wrecks and tickets would probably happen, and they'd LEARN how to work.

Tell ya a weird story... last night, me and Dillon went grocery shopping, which I absolutely abhor... saw one of the mother's of a friend of Trent's... she says, you just send him home when he bothers you. Well, I know some background there, and I told her, with a smile on my face, you know, I never have a bit of trouble out of these boys that come to the house - not a bit. If I did, you can betcha I'd handle it right then and there. Told her he was a good kid, just needed a bit of guidance, and that Trent was a good example for him (he's a year younger than Trent).

Okay, now are you sitting down for this.... she says, well, you know, he's not a very good kid. It took everything I had to say, WELL, DUH, WHO'S THE GOSH-DANGED PARENT????? Oh, if I only had a big enough house to adopt them all, ya know! Dangit!

7C....I bet you already know about this....But I'm sure no-one else here does........Last summer Glen Beck had some pictures on his website. They were of a border patrol agent who was beaten to death with rocks, in his patrol truck. Illegals jumped him. He locked himself in the truck, but they used rocks to bust out the windows. Those agents are harrassed and assaulted every day. We just aren't told about it.

The kidnapping ring that operates out of Larado has figured out quite a system to chose their victoms. They just go to Larado....Click on a laptop, then pull up the property assments/tax records.... What's even better.....Members of the Mexican army frequent the 7-11s in border towns...In full uniform!!!!!! Ranchers often find them on their property.

Have any of you heard about all the sanctuary towns????? Do you know who owns the highway they are building from Mexico to Canada???? The King of Spain!!!!!! It's called Highway 69. This is no joke!!!!! Texas isn't going along with it....But construction of the rest of the road is well under way!!!!!

Kids around here are dying to get jobs. Fast food won't hire them during the school year.....Most can't find work at all in the summer. Those that do are often verbally abused and over-worked because they can be replaced so easy. Ever try to give your order to someone who doesn't speak English???? They make the customers use those picture menus they have for deaf people.

7C....I LOVE Dave Ramsey!!!!!!! Do you ever listen to Rollye James, Glen Beck, or Mike McConnel???

I don't particularly like any of the choices, but I do think Hilary's agenda is very socialistic. Universal healthcare sounds great, but if you really think about it, why should someone who is too lazy to get off their butt and get a job get free healthcare. I have worked in the medical field for too long and seen too much.

I believe our whole system is screwed up...welfare, medicaid, etc. I do n't believe we should continue to pay people who won't work. I do believe that those who are working should have health coverage. I guess I believe we should have more of a subsidy program. If you can't make it in spite of your hard work, then I don't have a problem with government assistance. If you can't make it because your lazy, then deal with it.

I spent years working in labor and delivery and I was once taking care of a patient who had a preschool age daughter with her. The lady was having her umpteenth baby. I was making conversation with the little girl. Somehow, I asked what she was gonna do when she grew up. She said, "I'm gonna draw." I thought, okay, she wants to be an artist. So I said, "What are you going to draw?" She looked at me like I was totally stupid and replied, "a check." I was flabbergasted. This little girl was 4 years old and already had her life planned out. She was gonna draw.

My opinion is that if you're healthy and able and you won't work, you don't eat. (Now, stepping off my soapbox)

Denise

Denibun....I was an LPN since 1975....EMT since 1985. I was shocked to find out how many illegals are living in American nursing homes, for free!!!

Good topic, no news flash here, I agree with Sheila and Lynn...but nothing sums it up better for me than this quote:
"I'd never vote for Clinton, even if my life depended on it"

Ragdoll, no, haven't heard of those people; Rick used to listen to Dave Ramsey on the radio, and then we found it on Fox Business - keeps you on your toes, that's for sure! And yes, I've heard about the border patrol agents - and it's getting worse. Course it isn't greatly publicized because, you know, that would make some politicians look bad.

Denibun, I couldn't agree more. My whole thing about welfare is, if you're on it, then you should be doing something for the government; i.e., picking up trash along our roadsides, working in government subsidized daycares, something. What it teaches is, if you're poor and don't want to work, fine, here, we'll give you free stuff... irks the living daylights out of me! And guess who's paying for it????? US! Well, I'm sick to death of paying for everybody else!!!!

Tell ya something real quick...Went to the feed store a couple of months ago, and this big strapping young man asked me if I was Trent's mom... I said, yeah - thought he looked familiar. He'd been over at the house roping with Trent. Anyhoos, come to find out, his girlfirend is pregnant, he had to quit school to get a job, and making less than $7 an hour. I came home, told Rick to put him to work. So Rick hired him.

Rick came in last night and said that he'd missed the safety meeting, and something else this kid hadn't done... he's making $11.00 an hour and after his 30 day whatever you call it, he'll have insurance, and can start his 401K, which the company matches up to a certain point - I mean, criminey sakes alive! What more chances can you get?

So I tell Rick this morning when he goes to work to get this kid to call me. I'm fixing to rip his rearend. Now, is this the kind of young people we're raising these days? Boggles the mind! What is it about these people that whine and moan, but don't undersatnd that by hard work, you can succeed, in whatever you do - so JUST DO IT! Criminey - that boils my blood!

7C, you're such a nice lady... I think the world would be such a better place if it had more mothers and friends who dealt with things like you lol. I hope everything turns out ok with that kid. I don't know what makes the youth of today think that they have everything owed to them and should get it on a silver platter.

I think the welfare system is great, but I think it should have a tough process to get through. What is really sad is to see the individuals who really need it not being able to get it. Then you go to a grocery store and see someone w/o a green card who has ten kids handing over their food stamps. Blows my mind.

All of this just goes to show it is not all about who is president.. It's the whole bunch of them and they all need to be replaced. As far as I am concerned you need to be a citizen to get help from the our tax dollars. These programs and so many more are poorly managed and funds are going every where..

Ok, I say this and said, Nope not going there, however! As far as the mexicans go, NOPE! Sorry, if they are going to be here, they need to be legal! if not, They need to be sent back home. Period. They are sapping the life out of our gov. resources. And if they live here, then they should learn ENGLISH! period, this double signs, press one for english, 2 for Spanish. Is wrong!

AMEN! It was said, Well, I'm sick to death of paying for everybody else!!!!

Denibun....I was an LPN since 1975....EMT since 1985. I was shocked to find out how many illegals are living in American nursing homes, for free!!!
AND SUCKING OUR BENEFITS right out the window!


Voting, OBama, nope, Clinton, not sure, but Im afraid the way things are going those are going to be our choices. Will not vote Rep. this year no way no how!

7 Cedars - Blake and I have been Dave Ramsey "followers" for 8 years now. great stuff!!!

Denibun, so have you been using Dave's steps? Did you happen to go to that meeting thing? I've signed up, but then a friend of mine has all the info and the book - I'm thinking of just getting a copy of that and not spending my money... HA!

TripleJ, you and I need to have a talk, girl!!!! I might have to blackmail you to the Republican side - you know, on that thing you just purchased.... HA! Just joshing with ya!

To all.... I heard something that hit the nail on the head last night on the news. "No presidential candidate will change your life or your circumstances, that's up to you."

K... so I've been browsing and haven't really felt the need to jump in as I've been enjoying the political banter.
I come from a large family (I have 5 siblings). Each of us has different educational backgrounds - as a group there is an MBA, MPH, JD, 3 BAs and 3BSs with a Masters in Psychology being worked on by one of my younger bros.
Needless to say there is a wide range of political views...everything from extremely far right to absurdidly far left.

Personally I agree with the conservative stance on MANY issues! So much has been botched up! Ugh...I worked as a claims rep for an insurance company and while that isn't healthcare like some of you - I saw a TON of milking the system and people that society has TRAINED to milk it.

Immigration laws are screwed up...BUT that is NO excuse to be here illegally...I know of SEVERAL people that use almost exclusively illegals...it irks me and every now and then I've considered reporting it...at the same time, the kids are busting their tails and they are learning english and almost all of them have wanted to go back to Mexico once they earn enough money...there is a 16yo who's uncle works here and is legal - the 16yo came up with him from his last trip to try and put away some money quick (by the time he is 20)...talk about a 5yr plan! The kid pays for food and clothing only and gets paid about $400/wk with NO taxes and works 6 days and 10hr days...not the best pay but consider the NO TAX part...

I don't know the answers...I do have a few plans though - if Hillary wins - I will be moving to Ireland, Costa Rica or anywhere but here!!!!

[quote="7cedars"]Denibun, so have you been using Dave's steps? Did you happen to go to that meeting thing? I've signed up, but then a friend of mine has all the info and the book - I'm thinking of just getting a copy of that and not spending my money... HA!

We attended a 13 week class that our church offered. Then, we actually went to a live event when he was near here. We followed his baby steps. We use his envelope system and use cash for everything that we can. We have a montly budget and we even paid off our 30 year mortgage a year ago (8 yrs into it). We have both committed to never borrowing money again for anything. Sometimes, there are things that I would like to have and it's as annoying as heck to have to wait and save for it, but it works out much better that way.

We read the book a few years before we actually attended the class, but we didn't make any changes. Sitting through the class really motivated us to apply the program and it has made a difference for us.

7cedars wrote:

Denibun, I couldn't agree more. My whole thing about welfare is, if you're on it, then you should be doing something for the government; i.e., picking up trash along our roadsides, working in government subsidized daycares, something. What it teaches is, if you're poor and don't want to work, fine, here, we'll give you free stuff... irks the living daylights out of me! And guess who's paying for it????? US! Well, I'm sick to death of paying for everybody else!!!!

Bingo!!! When Roosevelt instituted the Works Public Dept, people had to work for their money. I don't have a problem with subsidizing those who are willing to work and even giving them healthcare, but I have a HUGE problem with paying for people who won't work.

I may have told this story before, but when I got pregnant with Rachel, I was in my 2nd semester of nursing school and Blake had just left his job at UPS to open a small hospital gift shop. We had no insurance. Blake was working in the shop and working a couple of other part time jobs and I was working 16 hour shifts on Saturdays and Sundays and going to school during the week. We could not afford to pay for the doctor/hospital cost. I reluctantly went to the medicaid office. Our income was low enough to qualify us, but they said they could not help us because we were married, both living in the same household, and both working. The lady said, "Honey, go quit your job and come back tomorrow and we can help you." I couldn't do it. I was working in labor and delivery where I wanted to work after graduating. It was a hard place to get into and my foot was in the door. But, how stupid is our system for penalizing somebody because they are 1. married 2. living in the same household and 3. working It's ridiculous.

Oh, Lordy, Denibun, I've heard it all now.... that person that told you that, should've been horse-whupped! Criminey!

Kudos for you on getting your debts under control! WOW!

Tell ya a funny... last night, me and Rick are watching TV, and I'm to the point of not watching any show that has commercials, or at least muting it when the commercials are on, (because it makes me want to buy or eat something) well, I forgot to mute, and a commercial comes up for Olive Garden and some other restaurant we love... Rick says, boy, that looks good.... I told him, DON'T LOOK, IT COSTS MONEY! We both laughed.

On the political side of things... I have never figured out why people think the president is always at fault... I mean, did they forget their junior high classes? It's the House and Senate that are making the laws, they have to sign off on everything. If there's a majority in each of those versus the president, president doesn't hardly get to do anything and vice versa.

See next post.

Did you guys hear about Bush signing the deal that there has to be more ethanol in gasoline every year, and by year (I forget), that every vehicle should get 35 MPG? You know what's fixing to happen to the oil industry? In ten years, oooweee, there's going to be a lot of people out of work, if they don't switch over quickly.

I sure hope the farmers raising corn get a lot out of this - probably won't, but hoping still.

Did you also hear about the new car from India that costs, $2,500 ... yep, that's right, $2,500, that gets 65 miles to the gallon? Supposed to hit the US I think some time late this year... I'm thinking Rick needs one of them...since he drives 45 miles one way to work! HA!

Darn 7C, hadn't heard of those cars before. That's what I need! I drive 60 miles one way to school But, that's what happens when the only equine program is, well, 60 miles away lol. hehe, I made the presidents list with my 4.0

7C....I guess you haven't heard about what Bush did.....Most of the corn sold in Mexico is controled by one company. They eat a lot of corn down there, so Bush decided to make a deal to send/sell them a huge amount of USA corn so their tortillas won't cost so much!!!!!!!!!