Selling horses/babies, etc.

I think we should all, especially us breeders, think of more places to market our babies, or any aged horses for that matter - as I see that's part of the problem.

Tell you a perfect example. I'll use names, so don't nobody get their panties in a wad. I sold my best paint filly (when I had paints) to Penny Cates. Now, Penny is real well known down here, especially in halter, and is now dabbling big time with Mexican buyers on performance horses. I'll also note, she's a freaking thief and a liar - but that's another story - wasn't me that she did it with, but I saw it... anyhoooo....

So Penny buys this jam-up weanling paint filly out of Kid, and her mom was a super big producing mare, halter and performance alike... she buys her for $4,500. She holds her for two months, puts some more weight on her, gets her into shape - I'd just started on her when she bought her, and then she literally takes her up to halter people up in halter country, Texas USA. Guess how much she sold that filly for? $7,500!

Now, I'm thinking, why the freak couldn't I do that? Well, first off, I don't know all the people she knows. She's been in the horse business way longer than I have been, knows all the big boys, has had some big time studs herself, and now she's also got Mexican buyers, which is a big deal, tons of money... Where, when, how you market your babies or any horse, for that matter, depends a lot on how much money you get for them.

That part I'm still working on! HA!

RoperChick, stupid question here... do ya think the reason why there's a shortage of finished roping horses is because very few stay or are sound?

I don't see a huge problem keeping rope horses sound personally I think the demand is just high and there has been a huge influx of people into team roping recently. In the last couple of years team roping has taken off as an event for people for fun. There just aren't a whole lot of great trainers out there to provide really good solid horses. Thats my take on it and I know you were asking Beth and not me

7cedars wrote:

RoperChick, stupid question here... do ya think the reason why there's a shortage of finished roping horses is because very few stay or are sound?

Not a stupid question at all, I think there are several factors for the shortage. Team Roping is/was the fastest growing equestrian sport in the country and if I remember correctly, for awhile, it was the fastest growing amateur sport equine and non-equine. Because it takes so long to make a solid finished horse, there is just no way to keep up with it horse wise. No matter how talented the horse is, to learn his job he has to make lots and lots of runs under different circumstances. There is just no way to speed up the process, it just takes time and if you push them, you'll blow them up mentally or physically. I think that's the biggest reason.

I'm sure you already know this, but Roper's are handicapped. In the USTRC for example they are numbered 1-10 (1 ropers are the true beginners and the 9 and 10 ropers are the NFR Guys). The most common handicap is a #4 roper (32,000 in the USTRC), so you are talking about a mid level amatuer. Not all the horses that are finished are suitable for the huge amateur/beginner market, so that means those horses are in even greater demand.

Also adding to the demand, if you are roping seriously and you want your horses to last, you need more than one horse. My hubby has 3 horses right now and that's barely enough for him to get the practice he needs (he's a #6 header). He doesn't like to make more than 30 runs a week on his practice horses and doesn't make more the 5 runs a week on Zane. So that really isn't much roping (the NFR guys make 100 runs a day). Ideally he should have 6 or 7 horses and 70 head of steers so that he could head 5-6 days a week. But until we win the lottery, that isn't going to happen. LOL!!

And lastly, as Lynn mentioned there's a shortage of good trainers. There aren't many out there who understand what a rope horse is required to do body wise and that can teach that to the horse.

I don't think soundess is an issue, horses that aren't overworked, have good conformation and are built for the job tend to stay sound.

I hope my ramblings make sense, sorry for the novel.

I totally agree with both of you, Lynn and Beth. And Lynn, it sure takes me a lot more than $1,000 a year to take care of one... whew! More like a minimum of $1,500 ... minimum!

The reason I asked about the roping horses, is it's been big and I'm sure always will be big around here. Ropers everywhere. I know some guys that actually are way up on the totem pole, so to speak, and yes, I know about the one through whatever, just don't know how it breaks down, but there are some guys that flat, get off work, get their wife/girlfriend to drive the truck and trailer, they sleep, haul to the roping, rope, then wife/girlfriend drives them home, and he's asleep... gets up the next morning, goes to work, does it all over again... now, that by gosh, is wanting something bad! I'm not sure who to feel sorry for, the wife/girlfriend or the guy! HA!

And you're definitely right, I know some of these ropers have a minimum of 4 horses, and they'll take at least 2 of them with 'em to ropings, at least two... most of the time, they're taking all four. I know one of the guys was telling me the other day that he only had 3 really good rope horses, and he has another one in training, that apparently is catching some eyes of some good ropers, and he just flat told the trainer that he's not selling him, he needed a fourth horse... talk about an expensive hobby - criminey! But I also know some of those guys win some real big bucks.

I know of a nurse's son, when he was 13 won a truck roping. That happens a lot around here, cracks me up, them little whipper snappers beating out all the big boys! HA!

And I don't care what anybody else says... when it comes to cowboys in general... them ropers have a real special place in my heart - always seem to be the best looking guys, too... HA! And boy do they ever train and ride a horse different than the rest of us... criminey sakes...

There's a guy a couple of towns away that actually goes to those rodeo colleges and teaches those guys how to better calf rope... I know we took Trent over there, oh, a couple of years ago, and I got to laughing so hard. But he danged sure helped Trent with his roping... Then we even sent him up to the ... oh, that roping seminar thingy with Smith Brothers I think it is... he really learned a ton there in just 3 days time. I can't afford a 10 grand horse - wouldn't even buy one of them things for myself, no matter what discipline, but maybe later when he's older, he can get one for himself... heck, you know what, that's what I paid for his danged truck, Lordy! HA!

But you brought up a very good point... the steers you have to buy to be able to rope and pay for their feeding, etc., the arena you need to have, lights if you want to rope at night, etc., etc.... roping can be extremely expensive. But I still like watching it....

Trainers, period, are hard to come by, the good 'uns, that is! I've personally seen some of those ropers, competing at AQHA shows, that somebody needed to drag them off the danged horse and beat the crap out of 'em! In fact, saw a judge one time, actually get off the fence, tell the roper if he pulled that crap one more time, he was going to get the gate. Thank goodness!

I have only two horses and know that three is my limit. They are out on five acres of pasture all year round. The two I have now will be with me the rest of my life so the third has to be a keeper too!

I have seen a lot of halter horses for sale that are very reasonable. Some may have great lines but are not much to look at either. In the last couple of days I have seen a daughter of Coolest for $2,000 or make offer and a daughter of Playgirl's Conclusion for $1,500. I don't know a lot about the whole horse industry as mine our mostly pets but you can buy some really nice horses for cheap if you are willing to put the time in for training. When I was younger when you bought a broke horse that is exactly what it was but now days people just do not put that kind of training in. To get something like that you have to buy an older experienced horse. I remember riding my mare when she was three all over town and anywhere else. She did great but my mom and I ponied her since she was little. When I bought Rowdy he was three completely untrained didn't know about fencing, trailering or even leading for that matter since the previous owners did not put the time into him.

Don't get me started on people who breed their grade mares just to have a foal or to make money!

Silver Buckles, Our classes down here still are packed with horses, they are in good locations and they go out of their ways to find reputable judges. My yearling colt, who you've all seen, has beat those big boy halter horses in the overall grand championships. You just have to have what's hot at the time, in the show ring, and in the sale market.

What shows are your showing at and where? My Son is in AZ? How many points have you put on your Yearling? Sounds like he is doing well.
Never mind, I checked the show results. I know now.
My yearling colt, who you've all seen, has beat those big boy halter horses in the overall grand championships. You just have to have what's hot at the time, in the show ring

IN AQHA?


A friend of mine in Zanesville, Ohio, stopped raising preformance babies for just this reason. Have to keep them until they are at least 2.
Time and expense to keeping them, and with shots, worming, farrier and feed. adding up to over 1,000.00 is real easy a year. Then what happens when the they don't have the mind or movement for the job? You now have a expensive trial horse for sale. At least halter babies, youve got a pretty good idea as soon as they hit the ground. Keep or move them. And some can do preformace classes. BUT then again you back to a trainer and more expense. When raising your own foal, taking it threw the steps, and doing well with it gives you a great sense of pride. I had someone tell me anyone can buy one. Not that you can't be proud when you do well with one you buy, but when you foal it, and then win with it. Its just a bit more special. Dont you think?

Hey RoperChick, Ive got someone Interested in my Pally colt in Cally. Maybe he will make it to you stomping ground. MAYBE!

Yea, that was the Beson Show, which was kind of stupid. In the open classes, you get the points for your class. So if I show in open yearling colt halter, I get the points for that. I wish the smaller shows were structured more like the ammy. classes, where you go in the 2&under. Just because we got a reserve grand in the 2 & under, doesn't mean we get any points, even though there would be enough horses to qualify. I didn't know the AQHA worked that way, because it was our first AQHA show. Those are the ones in southern Arizona though (Tucson, Benson, Sonoita). The ones with all the horses are in the valley in Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Queen Creek, Buckeye. I realized why not so many people drive to the southern shows, holly crap, it was like a six hour drive there. They're having one this weekend, but I can't make it to it because I'm going on a weekend trip up north with Tyler... Kinda sucks, I heard that the pre entries are averaging like 20+ per class... If your son lives in the valley area, there is the AQHA Scholarship Circuit, which is really competitive, there's the Scottsdale Classic in october, which people come to from all over the country, then there's sun circuit, shamrock aqha show, etc... I can send you the info on them all if he's looking for somewhere to show.

If you are into the PAC stuff, you've got it made here though. We run two of the most competitive open shows in the western states here, one is the Blue Ribbon show (ever heard of blue ribbon tack? that's the people that run this) and then there's the Diamond Equestrian Show Series. Everyone who shows breed shows, shows at these series. We won the year end award at the Diamond Series. I can take a picture of our trophy or all of our ribbons if you need me too, or you can ask REINING CHIK, she knows all about what we've won too, but they don't post results on line

Congrats on possibly finding a home for your colt!

Talking about hours hauling to shows... me and Amber (Trent's girlfriend) were just talking about how hard it's going to be on us after going to a football game, coming home, loading the horses and taking off. The one particular futurity I want to go to is at least 5 hours from us... the last freaking hour of it 2-lanes, and it never fails, I either get behind a drunk, or it's pouring down raining, or behind a danged pulpwood hauler - it just flat never fails... usually my knuckles are white from holding on to the steering wheel being so stressed by the time we get to the danged show grounds. But it's a good show and we need to go. Plus, there's a certain trainer there that I want to bust his amateurs - I live for that... HA!

Then there's another one up in Oklahoma that Kid stood grand champion stud two years in a row, and we need to go up there...both of these shows are a 4 1/2-5 hour drive... ARGH!

ARGH, I'm going to be one wiped out puppy! I told Amber as soon as we got through showing, we were zonking out, and by gosh, nobody better wake us up! HA! Hauling 4, Lordy help me!

This next year, though, I'll be a little more prepared, and hopefully it won't be so wet where I can't get the horses to the back pasture, and I don't break my stupid arm again - I have no tolerance with things messing up my plans.

But can you imagine how long it's going to take Kell coming from Minnesota to the World show... ooowee, what a trip!

Really depends on where you are and what is coming to the show pen.. If you have big classes that is great for racking up points and getting INF money back.. In Oregon there are not enough in the halter classes to get any points.. You might get a point in the Grand and Reserve when all the cow horses are in for the all around.

I have seen some of the checks my roping friends have written for a weekend AQHA show.. By the time they pay for the cows they have really put out a lot of money for a weekend show. And, if they are good with the rope they may even get a point or two.. At least that event is about who really did the best not who the judges think they should place.

Many of those high priced horses do not actually sell for what they are asking for them either.. Just 3 years ago I was getting anywhere between $5,000.00 and $6,500.00 for my weanlings. And, that was after they won futurity money.. The last few years it has been around $2000.00. Some may say that is not bad for a weanling. Well, it is not good either and does not cover the investment.. Even with my own stallion. I still have vet fees associated with breeding my mares. Utlra sounds, etc. I pay $100.00 for the vet to come out and ultra sound a mare.. That is before breeding then again to check if they are in foal and only have one foal in there.. I do this with all of them. We do not live cover here.. If they are not in foal I have to do it all over again.

As far as expenses go on raising them depends on where you are as well. I was comparing the cost to geld with someone in Tx and it cost about 3 times as much to do that here as it does there.. Just like everything else I guess.

And, the comment about not being a breeder makes sense to me. May very well be differend to buy and sell. I like raising my own horses and yes it does take time. At, least I do not end up with some other persons problem horse.. Been there done that..

People are changing gears all the time. I would like to mention an older male judge from AZ that comes up here is very cool.. He finally gave this big time shank around here the boot at a show.. The other judges were letting this freak in with his weanling colt that was so lame he could not walk and winning everything.. This old guy to him to hit the gate.. Everyone cheared..

People are changing gears all the time. I would like to mention an older male judge from AZ that comes up here is very cool.. He finally gave this big time shank around here the boot at a show.. The other judges were letting this freak in with his weanling colt that was so lame he could not walk and winning everything.. This old guy to him to hit the gate.. Everyone cheared.. :cheering:


AMEN AMEN AMEN!

Silver Buckels, You have to beat 2 to get 1/2 a point, so there would have to be at least 3 in your class. Now if you go Grand or Res. And then there still has to be a certain number of horses in grand or res to get points and depending on how many was in there classes etc.... It was easier year ago. And yes, points are given in Am and Open. Ok, Lets say there was
2 in your class, you win, NO POINTS.. there was one other umm 3 year old stallion in his class no others. You get no points for your class even thought you won. The year old goes grand over you. He get 1/2 point. You get non. Even though you get Res. Sucks. This is how it works in Am. Also. Only the classes are split with 2 and under and 3 and Over. You only have 4 called back for Grand and Res where as in open there are more called back depending how many show up for the classes.

BlueJay, I betcha I know the exact judge you're talking about. And if he is, I've showed under him three times, and he's awesome. He's really one of those no he-haw kinda guys, and he'll set there with you after the class and tell you what he did and didn't like about your horse, and if something can be fixed, he'll tell you how to fix it too! He placed me last one time, but I came out of the ring feeling like I placed first because he gave me some pointers and said my colt would be beating those other stallions in another six months when he filled out.

Triple J, that's pretty much what happened too, it kind of irritated me because there WAS another colt entered in my class, and Scotch would have beat him, but his owners missed the gate call and they weren't hearing any of it. So, I was screwed out of my 1/2 point... Oh well, there's always next time... Thanks for breaking that down, for some reason, I thought there had to be atleast four horses in a class... /

I tell ya, I'm having the dickens of a time trying to explain to that roper who bred those paint mares, who got talked into buying these paint mares (the word sucker comes to mind - wasn't me, though!), what those mares are worth... I'm like, you DON'T GET IT! The days of getting 5 grand up for a mediocre paint mare ain't happening no more...then he'll say, fine, I'll just keep 'em. The next week, he'll call me and tell me he wants to get rid of 'em... I said, fine, load 'em up and take 'em to Whitesboro or Lufkin... well, how much ya think I'm going to get? Maybe 1,200... I'll just keep 'em... yeah, okie doke, whatever.

Then he says, well, we need to go ahead and get the papers on the babies... I said, well, for criminey sakes, if you're going to sell them, just sell with the danged breeder's certificate, that way you're not out that money...and they're not even halter broke. Rick said he'd do it for $100 a head! HA!

Oh, and Bluejay - tell ya a funny.... you'll love this one! Remember how long time ago, these cowboys used to cut their studs... well, I didn't know this, but apparently Rick and his brothers and his Dad always did that... So Amber's mom has a 2-year old stud colt that needs to be cut, he told her it wouldn't cost her a thing, he'd just drop 'em and do it... I thought, oh, Good Lord, no, you're not! I think he was actually serious. And I have no doubt he knows how to do it, but criminey, that's just taking it a bit far to me! HA! He danged sure isn't doing that to any of mine! Anyhoo, I'll give him the message that the next time we're swinging up by Oregon, he can cut your colt for free... HA!

And, Silverbuckles, don't feel bad! You know how many times I went reserve and didn't even get a stinking half a point... GAWD! Many, many times going grand only got me a half a point!

I'll chime in here for a minute even though I'd better get back to work soon...ugh...

We currently have the following horses:
- 17yo AQHA gelding - 2time world show qualifier - amature and open ROM - he is leased to a little girl who has severe kidney disease and probably has a home lined up after that (you know who you are). Don't want to sell him for emotional reasons but want him to be working so there ya go!!!
- 10yo broodmare in foal to a leading freshman sire who is bred impecably, she is a AAA runner and race winner, good conformation, bad luck (knee blew out after tripping on the track in a race) - broodmare sound only...good thing she is bred to be one!!! Oh and I have her leased and do not OWN her.
- 3yo gelding - dam earned 60+k and sire is bred royally - in race training and if he can't cut it he will be sold as a barrel prospect with a handle on him.
- 4yo filly - half sister to stakes winner, AA runner, placed to 3, 1 year off and back in race training - already have offers for her to go run barrels but will try her luck until Dec 1...then its to the barrel pen and/or breeding barn.
-2yo gelding - half brother to a stakes winner, goofball and completely mentally immature...in race training will get 2 more starts this year, turned out and come back at 3 to tell them all whats up - if he can't run he will go into barrels, roping or jumping...beautiful legs on this kiddo...
-blasted dang paint - great buddy for babies and broodmares...easy to ride but a pain in the rear while on the ground - registered but worthless...maybe sell him for his hide?!?!
We also own half of a little cow bred mare (red dun) who I do not like...

I guess we technically own 5.5, lease 1 out, lease 1 in and have a foal on the way. We had-have a 7yo gelding who is AA and a race winner...Garrett didn't want to sell him...the horse was finished on the track and had feet problems at one time. We turned him out for 8 months. Loaded him in a trailer and dropped him off at a friend's house who runs and trains barrels...he is doing GREAT - no problems and is getting ready to start hauling. No $$$ has exchanged hands...If she likes him, she can keep him. If she sells him, we get a pre-determined amount for him (what we could have sold him for BEFORE he was trained to run in circles)...works out well for everyone!

We will max out at 2 broodmares. I do not want any more than that right now. I have 1 and I like the fact that I lease her...if I don't like her baby I can load her in the trailer and take her back to OK. If I DO like her baby I can keep her as long as I want her (per the agreement with her owners).

I KNOW that personally I will never own a breeding stallion. I can buy bloodlines in a stallion for anywhere from $1k to $20k... I make dang sure that any stallion I breed to is either a producer or preformer (if too young to have produce)...I breed genetics instead of market...

I market word of mouth, emails, internet and sometimes sales...If there is enough pedigree, the horse can be sold. It is all about KNOWNING your market...and if your market isn't going anywhere make dang sure your horse can do something else!!! This is why I absolutely LOVE QH race bred horses...they are pretty stinkin versitile!!!!!

Silverbuckels. does sound like the same man. He also will place the yearlings in front of the two year olds in the am class.. He knows horses and does not let anyone intimindate him in to placing a horse first when it does not belong there.. This person he gave the boot to does that.. Funny thing is this shank had a two page spread in the journal about halter fitting. So, AQHA does promote this.. All lies..

And, he is nothing when it comes to the world show... He goes where he can win period.. He does go to the world every year.. Has someone else show what he thinks will win since he knows he can't do it.. He also has a client with a fat wallet and she buys already made world class horses.. They have a blast around here winning everything. Too bad no one wants to play with them anymore and points are few and far between.. I have seen him do terrible things to horses.. Doesn't care.. All about the money and this is how he makes his living.. Can you imagine showing your world champion on the Oregon curcuit..

I do believe I know who your talking about. The Jerk shouldn't even own horses. I saw what he does and shouln't be allowed to even show.
By the way Bluejay, Congrats on Dixie.

Mare, you know who he is.. Jack B.. LOL.. He doesn't migrate east. And, I am so happy Dixie is so loved and taken care of.. And, Leann is finally doing what she always talked about..

Well, I tell you, Bluejay, that Dixie Doll just keeps getting better and better and was a danged steal... especially since she's beating the snot out of everybody else... HA! SWEET!

What is really cool about this is that she is truley Leann's dream horse.. I have been teasing her about people loading up when they see her coming.. She works hard and does it all herself.. It's about time someone who is true and honest gets the blue.. I can't wait to see how she looks as a three year old. I think that will be her year..