Selling horses/babies, etc.

Was on the Halter horse forum just a bit ago, and noticed some girls that were trying to sell up some jam-up halter geldings, for little or nothing. One girl even stated she'd just sold a gelding that she had for sale for 2 years, made the honor roll, had over 500 points, and sold him for $3,000. GAWD!

Couple of days ago, I looked on Clark Rassi's website, he's the leading owner for winning halter horses... he's got jam-up, and I'm talking jam-up babies for sale at $5,000. So even he's feeling the crunch of the market.

I don't know... this isn't looking too promising at all! With the price of feed and hay sky rocketing, average horse that does average things hitting around the $600 mark, that's a grown horse that's trained... it's just getting flat stupid. When super, super geldings or mares that have mega training on them are going for so little, something's seriously wrong here... Why even worry about having babies and raising them, when you can buy one cheaper when it's already trained!!!!

The one area that I've seen that are still getting top dollar is the rope horses. I'm sure it's that way also in some other disciplines, but that's the only ones I'm seeing right now...

I am so seriously glad I don't have 30 plus head here anymore... getting 10 or more babies on the ground every year... holy Lord!...I don't know, I might be revamping totally everything... might be getting me one jam-up halter mare to throw me one baby to show every year, and that be it.

I seriously see a whole bunch of cows being on this place at some point... HA!

And to update you, I've given Rick the nod to go ahead and finish breaking out Kid. He was broke out oh, when he was 3, I think, I rode him once, has the smoothest jog trot I'd ever been on... and talked with Anita about it, told Rick I'd probably need to be out there with him, so Kid would know everything was okay, as before... so we'll see. They're wanting to do the calf sorting stuff, so we'll see....it'll be hard for me to lose my boy, but then, I'm working on his son, who at some point, will go the same direction, so we'll see.... (notice a lot of "so we'll see" in this)... can ya tell I'm real hesitant about all this - if my gosh-danged arm wasn't broke, I'd ride him! And I will at some point, but I can't right now.... and Rick's on a war path, as usual... it's always yesterday, ya know...if he hurts my stud, and me and the boys are going to take him out behind the barn and beat the crap out of him!!!! HA! (I ain't playing on that deal, though!) Criminey!

Anyhoo....as far as business-wise on these horses... I think everybody needs to take a step back, and see what the market is, because it's not going to get any better. I'm going to see how we do in the futurities and getting these 2 babies sold, before I make a definite decision.

Ive already made my mind up. One broodmare and may not even breed her next year. She may get trail ridden.
One gelding for my husband
One for western pleasure and all around
And Maybe my Pally colt unless someone meets my price tag.
I do think
the market will come back but not for awhile. Like a few years.
The Slaughter house changes has hurt our market. It has driven prices why down. Hate to say it but it has.

Sure looks like people are downsizing and some bargains will be had.
I'm curious as to how many horses everybody has and how many they want to have. I know alot of people on here are one-horse owners who board and that is their limit, but the breeders and people with their own barns tend to be the collectors! Triple J wants only 4 but I don't know how many she has now, and we already know Merikle has 14, but what about everyone else?
We have a 3 stall barn and not alot of pasture and have three horses so as tempting as it is sometimes to add another, we won't be doing that. Two of our horses are becoming geriatric and will be lifetime residents so our ability to buy new horses will have to hinge on someone dying!!
With the economy going south, I most fear for the old and the very young horses. They are the ones who are considered the most disposable by those facing hard times.

I have 6....two mares, three geldings, and my colt. I want to sell my two mares and my colt and buy a pleasure gelding, keep the gaming gelding, and of course keep Nick until he dies. I may even sell my hubby's trail horse.

I used to think having 5 top bred producing mares would do it... but heck, I can't show all five ya know...if I can't get the babies sold, then that's more and more money out of my pocket keeping them.... I don't know, it ain't looking too promising.

And I've got 7 here... 3 need to go, which include both the babies, whom I haven't advertised yet, and Scamp... but other than that, that leaves me with Kid, 2 broodmares and Jazz, and as far as I'm concerned, by the end of each year, that should be the only ones left, period! HA!

Tell ya something Rick told me after going with his brother to a sale last month. He said an own daughter of High Brow Cat - get that, the leading sire of futurity winning cutters this past futurity, that was 2, that was hurt during training, but still could foo-foo around on, and be a good solid broomare went for... are you sitting down... freaking $2,000... I don't know what that sucker's breeding fee is, but I guarantee you, it's probably at least 3 times the price that filly went for... now, something is seriously wrong with that picture; not to mention weanlings, grandsons/granddaughters out of Smart Chic O'Lena and Shining Spark going for freaking $300-500. Jeesh!

If I had tons of money to poof off with hay and feed, and had a jam-up trainer here that could work 7-8 horses every day, I guarantee you a bunch of those suckers would be sitting in my pasture... yep, that's for danged sure! Put them in that gosh-danged gelding competition down at Havard's Sale in Lufkin and get something done... maybe... GAWD! Course Rick and Trent are having a yeyaw about that, but until I see hard cash coming in on an example horse, that ain't happening at all!

I still see cows or dogs or something else being here... I know my brother-in-law is selling his gosh-danged super dooper pups for $2,000... freaking dogs now! I think we're in the wrong business... HA!

I do not believe it's the closing of the slaughter houses that cause this problem. The same thing happened last year.. My take on it is, the breeders are letting them go cheap. We need to take a few years off and stop producing what we cannot sell.

The working horses are selling. But, a good working horse needs a lot of training with a good trainer.. That all cost money.. So, they are not making a killing on them either after they add in the expense of all that.. many of the horses you see out there were brought in for training and could not make the cut or broke down.. The trainers say you may get one out of 30 that will be a good horse and go on. The rest are out there being sold for nothing.

Halter horses are not going to the ring simply because people are sick and tired of the politics and the same cheaters winning all the time.. That is why I do not go and why many around here are not going either.. Not to mentiion what the people who are going are doing to their horses to get in the final lineup.. AQHA promotes it as far as I am concerned.. I also want to say that not all people in the halter pen are cheaters.. Many of them are people with nice horses and working hard, doing everthing the right way.. Those are the people who do not go anymore or very rarely. Cost too much money and frankly it is not fun anymore.. Also, the show schedules on the West Coast have pushed the halter classes back to later in the day. Halter horse are early morning people and they are good early in the day and not so great later in the day..

The weanling futuriies have gone from having 20+ horses in the ring to maybe 3 if your lucky.. Same thing there.. Same shanks winning.. Last year one of them had a colt that could not even walk he was so messed up. Guess what, 1st place.. We are not going this year for the first time in 10 years.. Cost too much money and frankly after that colt last year won and could not even walk that was the final straw. We may go back next year. And, lets not forget the ones who lie about the real age of the horse. This is cheating at it's worst.. This is done so they fit in to a class where their horse is bigger and can beat the honest people. People who lie and cheat will have bad Karma.

I have two mares bred this year.. One to outside stallion and one paint to our stallion. I will breed some paints to him next year. If the same problem I am going to get rid of what I have and have some fun for a change.. I will keep maybe three.. One being my stallion. Just makes no sense to keep throwing money at a no win situation.

I have much higher expectations with my investment to settle for horses I cannot get at least my cost back and then some to keep going.

Just my take on the subject and my experience in the horse world.

I have a very nice 5 stall barn, Had 9, down to 6 and 2 more to go. Was not caring one way or the other on my pally colt. But might have some interest. So he may go, then Im down to 3, will purchase another Pally though to show. Love the Pally shows. One mare in foal, may or may not breed her back. Just depends on what is standing in kentucky. Yep, must be in kentucky so I can get a piece of the Money Pie. They have a great program here AQHA/APHA Incentive Fund Points are worth 110.00 plus the incentive fund points from the assoc. So, I might try for a bit of that pie.

I agree with Bluejay, if the cutting back of raising foals is cut way back, it will drive the market up. But it will take awhile. Also, way to many non productive foals being born. Way to many Stallions that DONT NEED TO BE A STALLION, is out there. Just because you own a mare doesnt mean you need to breed her either. Like 7 Ceders said just because you have a great mare doesnt mean shes a great producer. I have a mare that for some really weird reason, you get what you breed her to period......! And I mean just what you breed her to. Ive never seen anything like it!!!!! She hasnt had a foal yet that you can say, she gets that from Sister. Nothing. She's the dam of my Pally Colt. He's Tucker all over. Freaky!
She blows the 75% Dam out of the water big time.

I still know around here the slaughter house, has driven prices way down, I mean like on trail riders, broodmares, unbroke horses, and such. Just went to a sale and that was a big topic of conversation the horse traders were talking alot about it.


PS Done the dog thing.. You talk about poltics, OUCH!
Puppies that arent show quality, restricted papers on breeding, They tell you IF you can breed the dog or not. Its there way of controling the market. So unless you know what you are looking for on your puppy paper work, dont assume you can breed it!

I'm with you BJ....But with a little different twist. I think the price of registered, show or pleasure horses has been way over-inflated for years. People who show tend to be willing to go into debt to lead or ride a horse they're told will win. It seems like the more they have to pay for a horse, the happier they are to buy it!!!!!!!!! I know people who have taken out several credit cards to either buy a horse, buy show tack, pay for travel, fees....etc. That's just plain stupid, as far as I'm concerned. Some end up broke, with bad credit.

The closing of the slaughter houses isn't going to hurt the horse industry. Some people are just going to have to swallow their pride and GIVE that horse to someone who will love and value him/her. One person's "dog food" or "French steak", is another person's first horse....or therapy horse. Prices will, and should, drop on certain horses that have in the past, carried a huge price tag.....Like horses with navicular, heaves, chronic founder. We've all seen people pay real money for those horses, just because they've been shown. I wouldn't take a free horse that I had to constantly doctor.

I think more people WOULD show if they could AFFORD a horse to show!!!! Some of us live in the real world, and don't make a six-figure income. Gas and the price of hay has really hurt the shows. I went to an AQHA show this past weekend. It's the only one in this area. The turn-out was so poor, I'm sure it will be moved next year.

I'm sure you all remember Buckingdummy, from the AQHA forum. He's typical of many breeders around here. They breed every mare they can find....Don't put out the money to register the babies....They run them through the sale for chicken feed.....and complain they didn't get enough for them. What they really care about, besides the cash, is the fact that they can brag about how many colts they have on the ground this year.

Did you ever notice that when you are looking to buy a new horse, prices are way up. When you want to sell, they are down. It just depends on who you are talking to, and when.

I have firends who breed chocolate labs. They are hunting quality and they make a lot of money from them.. The pups go for 350.00 to 400.00. That is not much per puppy but they have several litters per year. They are always sold before they are weaned.. I think they do so well because of numbers and affordable price.. This pays for their horse habit..

And, you never know when that will drop off as well..

Triple J. How do you get all the INF money when no one else does? What is the special program that AQHA has with Kentucky and not the rest of us? Is that through the state association and they payout the extra?

The Oregon association sucks and is slipping away to nothing. No other choice here either.. There is just a handful of them left and they have run off many of the members.. Us included.. We will not participate in any of their stuff.. They cater to a few and break their own rules then lie about it. I caught them red handed and told them to stuff it..

If you guys want a good laugh....Check out the NQHA site!!!!!!

Ragdoll much of what you say is true. And most of us do go in dept for our horses.. And get nothing done with them either.

Many people are stuck on designer labels. Be it good or bad.. I see it all the time here. Well my horse is by so and so.. I say so what.

Good example of that is a gal out in my area that bought some horses from a so called big time breeder and so called quality horses.. She shipped them half way accross the country. This person is such a fool she got sucked in to how nice these people are and how great they told her the horses were.. She bought a few from them spending a ton of money. She runs around bragging to everyone like she has something.. Well, the horses she got are so bad they could not even place in a weekend open show let alone do anything in a AQHA show pen.. Of course you idgid these people are nice to you. They want to sell you their junk no one else will buy.. How stupid can an adult person be...

Another one out here breeds her mares to Yella Fella. Just so she can say so. She is so dumb she has a bunch of club footed horses.. Her mare is this way. She has a ton of money to spend and cannot even give these horses away.. She finally gelded the stallion by Coolest and is just riding him. She could not sell him since he has the bad feet.. Once again same mare.. She did get a lot of points on him in halter and he is really a pretty working horse. No one wants him. They have sunk thousands of dollars in him. He is a nice horse and a nice riding gelding now.. They never did breed a mare to him thank God..

I still say money talks in this business and if you do not have you will be left behind.. So, all of you in my shape can just get in my line.

Oh, I think the closing of slaughter houses have definitely cut the prices! Where you had a killer going for 90 cents to $1.00 a pound, your regular riding horses were up, oh, around the 1,500 -2,500 range... others would go up from there... Now, you can get a jam-up whatever for 1,500-2,500.

And, yes, I totally agree, some of these prices are so over-inflated, you wonder if these people have a brain or not... criminey sakes! There's a girl hunting for a paly colt (HEADS-UP TRIPLE J) on the halter forum, that is willing to spend 5-10,000 for one... and has a trade on a jam-up N/H halter mare, if interested in that... but oops, she needs to stay on drugs to stay bred... but TRIPLEJ, you need to check that otu and send her some pics of your colt...

And yep, money talks and it walks!!!! If money people don't watch it, though, they'll be the only ones showing! Stupid idgits!

I know the market is down and horses are not selling well, but then why can't I find a new pleasure horse for Rachel for less than $4000-$6000?

Good quality (w/o soundness issues etc..), high end, competitive horses still bring $$ going to have to pay for that nice pleasure horse . The high end halter market may be down but I don't really see that reflected elsewhere.

I keep migrating towards horses with some mild maintenance issues because I think there's no way that I will find a horse that is what I'm looking for and in my price range unless it has some issues going on.

Denise

Lynn M. wrote:

Good quality (w/o soundness issues etc..), high end, competitive horses still bring $$ going to have to pay for that nice pleasure horse . The high end halter market may be down but I don't really see that reflected elsewhere.

I agree, I think the high end competitive horses especially the cow horses, will continue to bring good $. As 7C mentioned the rope horse market (has gone down a little) but is still pretty high. If you want a good finished/seasoned head horse here on the west coast you are going to expect to pay a minimum of around $ 12,000.00. Average price around here for a good 7-10 year old finished head horse seems to be around $ 15k.

We searched for months for a new practice horse for my husband. We were looking in the under 10k range and had a tough time finding something that wasn't either ancient, lame, ugly or an unfinished horse that was not started properly (these were usually advertised as finished). We finally bought a nice 5 year old foundation bred gelding last week. He's not finished, but he was started by someone who knew what they were doing, so he should make a nice horse.

I agree roperchick that is why we stopped selling Peppy's colts as weanlings and yearlings I can have them started as calf horses and they start at 10k around here with approximately 2k of training hmmm I think Ill hold on to them awhile. 30days of riding as a colt bring them home ride them here 6months to a year on the ranch work around cattle start them around a rope then ship them to the rope horse trainer and they are ready for hard work.

Lynn M. wrote:

I agree roperchick that is why we stopped selling Peppy's colts as weanlings and yearlings I can have them started as calf horses and they start at 10k around here with approximately 2k of training hmmm I think Ill hold on to them awhile. 30days of riding as a colt bring them home ride them here 6months to a year on the ranch work around cattle start them around a rope then ship them to the rope horse trainer and they are ready for hard work.

I love buying horses that have that kind of start. It's the way to end up with a nice solid, confident, sound for the long haul, rope horse in the end.

See, that's my point on the performance end. I'm assuming they don't start roping off 2-year olds, so let's go at it this way... this is called a super long investment strategy.

Got to get the mare bred... okay, so at least $1,000 in the baby before they even get here, and that's if you have your own stud. If you have to breed your mare to an outside stud, put that top of it. They get here, now you've got to keep the suckers blasted suicide-free for 2 years... okay, so that's at least another minimum of $1,000 per year... At 2 years old, youv'e got at least $3,000 in 'em, BEFORE they even go to the trainer's. Okay, then taking Lynn's scenario, which is way better for the horse, he gets broke out at a whatever trainer, say at least $500, so now we're up to $3,500, gets used a little on the ranch, and held for six months to a year or his three-year old year I'm assuming... Well, that's another oh, say $500... Okay, so now we're up to $4,000... and that's IF THE SUCKER doesn't get cut up, is sound, etc... not a lot of vet bills, etc. Not even taking that into account yet.

So before it goes to the trainer, so far we've got $4,000 in the horse, and that's IF we didn't breed outside and have our own stud.

Now, we go spend $2,000 at the trainer's... Now, we're at $6,000.... 6 freaking thousand dollars!!!! That you hope to GAWD doesn't break down at the trainer's or get hurt or whatever, and he might not be all that, but you've got $6,000 invested in him, no if's, and's or but's. Now, if you get to sell that horse for $10,000 at the time he's finished at the trainer's, that's a $4,000 profit, but it took you 3-4 years to get it... so that's an average of say $1,000 return on your money PER YEAR, and that's if, and only IF the sucker makes it or doesn't commit suicide. And if over those 3-4 years you don't have $1,500 worth of vet bills on him, well.....you get the figures...and that's just on one horse... and if you paid oh, say $1,000 for your stud fee, well, that's only $3,000 profit, etc., etc.

Okay, if I spent that freaking much on getting a halter horse here and all that, I'd be sick to my danged stomach!

And yep, good roping horses are hard to come by... not a whole lot of people can drop 10-15,000 - therefore, your market is small compared to horses averaging 3 to $5,000, unless you're roping all the time, see lots of ropers, big top ropers, and are in the thick of things, etc., which also costs money....to compete, being out there at all those ropings. Well, there goes some of that there profit, as far as marketing.

To this day, the best way, that I can see money-wise, a quick return on your investment, so to speak, is getting rid of 'em as soon as they hit the ground, for at least a minimum of $500 in your pocket, over and what it costs to get 'em here, stud fees, etc. If it's more than $500.... SUPERB! It's a super quick return on your investment! I knew I liked halter for a reason, they get shown when they're young, and they can get sold when they're young....for instance, if you had 10 jam-up babies in whatever discipline, sold them all... well, guess what, you just hit the jack pot, you just put in your pocket $5,000. I'd danged sure rather put $5,000 in my pocket in a 15-20 month return (mare being pregnant, baby hitting the ground) than holding them suckers... but that's just me.

But I still wish last year, when me and Rick went down to Havard's sale, I would've got him that gosh-danged gray horse that won 3rd in the gelding competition for all of $4,000 - almost finished rope horse and a finished reiner... DAMMIT! But then, what the freak am I supposed to do with a gelding... Ha!

I'm not seeing a huge drop in the market in AZ lately, I just sold Missy, the Peppy San Badger and Impressive great grandaughter for $3k. I thought that was a pretty good deal, because even with feed, etc, I didn't have that much into her. The thing is, people that DO have the money, WILL spend it if they like what you have. That's why it is so important to have horses that are marketable to the public, meaning good bloodlines, papers, attractive looks, good build, and either a solid foundation or trained. People will pay for those horses. But, you HAVE to have what's hot on the market, as far as the names go, and the disciplines, etc. I whole heartedly believe that horses, just like tack, go in trends. What is hot at one moment, may not be hot in another. There are always going to be those lines that have a steady market, but there are a lot of new names that will fade with time.
I do see a bit of a hit on the halter market, but you know what, I totaly understand WHY. If you were just getting into horses, and started learning about the different events, and you took a look at what was going on in the halter world lately, you probably wouldn't want to be a part of it either. I think halter has some of the WORSE politics of any discipline, and quite honestly, a lot of people are putting a ribbon or title in front of their horse's health. Keep in mind, this is coming from a HALTER person. I know of a lot of people who are getting out of the halter business because they are tired of the hooplah, not to mention, with the changes coming around, and yes, there are changes, go to an AQHA show in the next few months, and take a better look at what's placing in the halter classes. These big monsters just aren't cutting it anymore, and a lot of people will be either starting over or getting out of the business.
I heard some talk of people not wanting to show anymore because it's too expensive, the competition is too stiff, etc. Ok, I bought Scotch for $800.00 from Canada, I spent a lot of time and money in fitting him, promoting him, showing him, and ya know what? It's paying off. I have people knocking on my door to breed to him, because he has what people want and I'm putting it on the market. I spend on average for an AQHA show, $175.00 including gas, just to show Scotch. I also win with him. I haven't showed at the worlds yet, but I will someday. I think there is such a stigma that goes along with the BAD part of showing, you always see so much attention going towards "Oh, so and so won because so and so was riding / leading them" that no one sees that people who are hard working and have nice horses still win, I know I do.
Our classes down here still are packed with horses, they are in good locations and they go out of their ways to find reputable judges. My yearling colt, who you've all seen, has beat those big boy halter horses in the overall grand championships. You just have to have what's hot at the time, in the show ring, and in the sale market.

Actually, out here there are a lot of people who will pay 15k for a good head horse (heel horses go for less). Team roping is still growing in popularity and there is a huge shortage of "good" finished head horses right now. It takes 2-3 years to make a truly finished/seasoned horse, so people who want to go win right now, are willing to pay for the training time.

Horses for the amateur ropers are especially in demand. There's a lot of money to be won at the USTRC ropings and other ropings. There are now a few amateur ropings where the winning team is guaranteed 100k, but if you want to be competitive at any level, you have to be mounted well.

Don't get me wrong, there are dinks out there that are overpriced and they don't sell. But the good talented ones don't stay on the market for long. When we were horse shopping (thank goodness that's over!), we had to call on new ads right away and if we didn't see them within a day or two they were usually sold before we got there (5 horses in fact).

For example, we can hardly go anywhere without someone trying to buy my hubby's good grey horse for enough money to buy 3 or 4 really nice finished horses. But, because we couldn't replace him, he's not for sale at any price (we've had three NFR ropers agree that we should never sell him because we could search for the rest of our lives and never find another that good). So, until the number of horses catches up with the need, I think the prices will remain high.

7C....You hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!! A SPECIALIZED horse, with SPECIFIC long-term training is going to cost more. That makes perfect sense. Especially horses trained on cows. Those cows cost money to buy and maintain!!!!!! BUT.....There comes a time when the price of that horse would drop. If that horse decides he/she hates working cows, or gets hurt, or gets too old to perform any more. The owner has a few options. Keep the horse forever....Give the horse to someone who will appreciate him/her....Sell the horse for a reasonable price...Or have the horse put-down. Not many veys are willing to kill a viable horse for no reason other than the fact that the horse isn't woth what was originally paid for him. Unfortunately, most people want to get back every penny they put into that horse.

I think a lot of this issue boils down to a few true facts. Too many people are breeding way too many horses. Horse prices have gotten way out-of-hand...(just look what it did to Arabs) There is going to come a time when that horse simpley isn't worth what he used to be. The price of certain horses will be dictated by the popularity of certain activities at any given time.... Geography.... and the economy.

Ragdoll wrote:

7C....You hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!! A SPECIALIZED horse, with SPECIFIC long-term training is going to cost more. That makes perfect sense. Especially horses trained on cows. Those cows cost money to buy and maintain!!!!!! BUT.....There comes a time when the price of that horse would drop. If that horse decides he/she hates working cows, or gets hurt, or gets too old to perform any more. The owner has a few options. Keep the horse forever....Give the horse to someone who will appreciate him/her....Sell the horse for a reasonable price...Or have the horse put-down. Not many veys are willing to kill a viable horse for no reason other than the fact that the horse isn't woth what was originally paid for him. Unfortunately, most people want to get back every penny they put into that horse..

I think because I'm not breeding horses (if I am I'm going to need to re-think my program because we have all geldings, LOL!!) I look at things a little differently. I don't expect to sell every horse I own and use for more than I purchased them for. If it's a young horse we are training, yes, we expect/hope to make a profit on the horse.

But.... if it's a horse we've been competing on for years and have won a lot of money on, I figure that into the equasion too. If I buy a horse at age 8 compete on him for 10 years, and sell him for less at age 18, I don't expect (not that I wouldn't like to) to get the same money for him. I figure the difference between the purchase price and the selling price is the fee for using him all those years. Although on the last two head horses we sold, we didn't end up doing too badly. Ben - purchased at age 8 for $ 5,500, sold at age 18 for $ 4,500.00. Buddy - purchased at age 10 for $ 6,000, sold at age 16 for $ 6,000. Granted both these horses were 100% sound when we sold them. Had they not been, obviously the pricing would have been different.

The other part of the expense is the monthly bills, but we have no other choice, it's kinda hard to rope on foot. LOL!! My husband (not me), owns horses so that he can rope, so without them he can't do what he loves to do. Me, as long as I can afford it, I'll always own at least one horse.

As for injuries, that's the chance we all take owning horses. No matter the discipline, there is always the risk that a horse is going to injure himself possibly permanently, that's just the nature of owning horses.

Ragdoll wrote:

I think a lot of this issue boils down to a few true facts. Too many people are breeding way too many horses. Horse prices have gotten way out-of-hand...(just look what it did to Arabs) There is going to come a time when that horse simpley isn't worth what he used to be. The price of certain horses will be dictated by the popularity of certain activities at any given time.... Geography.... and the economy.

I totally agree, I think there are way to many people breeding horses because they can, not because they should.

Another thing to consider is....How bad does someone want a horse that you have? Everyone knows that an older, seasoned, safe, sound horse is worth his/her weight in gold. But the reality is, an 18yr old horse is going to have a limited amount of time left. I have a 20yr old mare....I've owned her since she was 2yrs old. She's had 10 babies....Won a lot of blues in open shows (AQHA shows weren't an option for us) and has a super-nice pedigree. But I'm realistic!!!!!!! She probably isn't worth meat prices. Her future is limited. I promise you....If I were to sell her, I'd want your first-born child!!!!!!!!!!! Worth is in the eye of the buyer/seller. Selling her just isn't an option. No way, no how. She has a home for life.

I can't help but think that the only people who can/do make money breeding horses is the guy who ownes his own stud, and breeds only a couple of mares a year....and shows those babies to promote the stud. It takes years to promote a stud. That brings me to somethiing else.........
If X-amount of people are lining up to breed to a certain stud......There has to come a point that the decendents of that stud will glut the market. Some of us would like to breed to "Mr Unheard Of". I'd expect to pay a lower fee, and get some new blood. How many people DON'T own a horse that DOESN'T trace back to Three Bars, Doc Bar, Hard Twist, Lucky Blanton, Coosa, or Impressive????

Guess we are lucky up here cause $1,ooo a year is not what we are paying to keep a horse with expenses added in and we are very diligent with teeth, feet etc...
and you make sure you get the mares and stallions that have the blood and ability and credentials so there is very little risk also a lot of soundness issues are genetic.
Not all of our foals are heading to the roping box but those that clearly are going to excel there we put on the roping plan