Owning stallions

Thought this would be a good topic to discuss...was thinking about this yesterday. Remember when we were all on the AQHA forum, and how many fights this started... GAWD!

Anyhoo, here's a scenario, and I'll try to use myself as an example, and maybe Lynn, Bluejay, TripleJ, and others who own stallions can put their thoughts and experiences down as well.

First, when I got my paint stud a hundred years ago, there were only about 2 of us around here... needless to say, when I advertised Rocky, that first year, I bred over 30 mares to him, I think I only had like 2 or 3 of my own... we had mares freaking everywhere - and I'm talking everywhere. Rocky had never been in the show ring, never had any points, because as a yearling, somebody pumped him too much, they had to staple his knees, and the stupid owner let him out too soon and busted them again. He literally looked like knees down, they belonged on the other leg - was twisted or anything, but you could still see and feel where the staples were. Bred some super nice mares to him, but it got to the point where the owners were driving me slap bonkers... just flat stupid people - at least some were - and that's always the ones you remember. I never got a chance to show any of his babies, as they were sold before I could even get them to the futurities.

So I just quit totally breeding him, except to a very select few. With Kid, that was a totally different matter... I was smarter with this one. I showed him, had dreams of the big breeding business, etc... even bought a full page ad in the Quarter Journal and the Paint Journal, put him in the incentive fund... dished out over $3,500 that winter. To no avail, not a single call. Had a lot of people later say that they remembered seeing him, a lot of good that did, though. I specifically remember Keith Tittle, owner of Mighty Awesome telling me that if you don't show your own stud/mare's babies, they'll never get the word out on your stud - how true. You can never expect the people who are so keen about showing one of your babies or whatever out of your stud/mare, that they'll actually do it.

So this is what my opinion is... Unless you've got a jam-up, winning everything type of stud, that's got at least a superior - and that's 50 freaking points, and you'll see tons of them being offerred at $500 a pop... now, how can us little fellers go against something like that - part of my point here and tons of money you're spinning your wheels on breeding tons of mares to him... anyhoo, I'm of the opinion now, that I don't want to breed a lot of gosh-darned mares. The type of facilities you need to have and the time that's involved is over-whelming... and if you haven't ever been to a breeding barn when they're breeding at least 30 mares, it's a freaking whirlwind.

Say you stand your stud for $500... the advertising alone is absolutely unreal - just figure 2 or 3 breeding fees down the drain, not to mention the incentive fun - the more you breed, the higher it is.

My thoughts are to show Kid's babies myself, get them out, hopefully get them to winning, sell them, and start on the next brood... At least that way, his babies will get shown, whether it's their weaning or yearling year. Sell the babies, but not the stud fee. If Kid breeds 5 outside mares, he pays for himself through the year. And we all know, I'm not getting rid of that stud - no way, no how!

What I'm thinking of at this point is... do I get more mares, which is more babies on the ground, I can only show and fit so many, so I'm kind of trying to figure out what to do here...I also want to get them in the performance ring as well, at least some of 'em... one reason why I want to cross Kid on some real good performance mares...

But anyway, with my mind tripping everywhere, that's my thoughts right now. I think it's a different strokes for different folks type of scenario, and one thing that's for sure... I'm not sending my stud out to somebody else's barn - I just flat don't trust anybody with my horses, and I literally mean anybody.

Funny, on the way to get some Mexican food last night... there's this absolutely gorgeous place across from the school that I showed Bluejay - talk about a dream horse place... Lordy... I'm thinking jeesh, I'd love to own something like that, and win the gosh-danged lottery... then I'd call Lynn up and say, okay, find me this, this and this... and then dress like I'm an in-bred river floating person, and find me a trainer... HA! Steal Steve Ferguson for halter away from those people in Tyler, and get me a jam-up cutting/reining/working cow horse trainer... Then I'd hire Slowjog, get her booty over here, and let her run the whole gosh-darned thing. Get Sip down here, to keep up with the websites and all the pics. Get SilverB down here and get her to do all the grooming... and most definitely move Kell down here for us to go hunting for horses... HA!

Isn't it funny what you think about IF you had THE MONEY!!!! HA!

I saw the exact same thing happen here. It always involved Paints. I knew of 3 situations, personally. #1....This gal I know went to Washington and got a starved-no training, yearling colt. He looked like hell....But he had a super-nice pedigree. They didn't advertise him at all. She was really convinced that she'd sell breedings by word-of-mouth. It didn't work, so when he was 3yrs old (she wanted to stud-him-out as a 2yr old) she gave me and a couple other people free breedings to our well-bred mares, knowing the foals would e shown. Every foal had angular deformity to one degree or another. (mine was the worst and had to have surgery on both front legs before he was 2 months old...He could hardly stand, much less walk) Only a few of the foals made it to open shows, and none did well. I haven't talked to this gal in years, but I'm sure they still have the stud. They never take him out of his pen, and they never did anything with him.....

#2....Paint.....About 10+ when they got him. He was supposedly crippled when he was young...Though I couldn't see anything wrong with him. He was a Mr. Gun Smoke son (maybe grandson) They paid $10,000.00 for him....Bought him in Texas. They bred a few mares....But considering this area....$500.00 was way too much for a stud fee.

#3....This guy brought this colt from Oregon.....Bred some mares when he was a 2yr old. The colt turned out to be sterile.

There are a bunch of studs around here....None have much or anything for a show record. But they all have the same thing in common. They want way too much money for a fee....and there is no venue/shows around here to validate that money. It's like the little old lady selling apples. She wants $1,000.000.00 for each. After-all, she only has to sell one!!!!!!!!!

You have to consider the audience you're playing to. I live in an area where there are no shows....No venue. No goal to be attained. If I were to stand a stud here, I'd keep the fee as low as possible, and list him IF. I won't consider breeding to stud who isn't IF again. I'd definately show his babies....Write the expenses off on your taxes.

I'd be happy to give you the names of the studs on IM

With the glut of horses in general, I think stud owners should be breeding only the best proven studs to the best possible mares. The breeding business doesn't sound to me like something the average backyard person is going to get rich at, so they should concentrate their money and efforts in other directions.
If I had a good mare to breed (I wouldn't breed one who wasn't good), I"d look long and hard to find that perfect stallion for her. You only have one good shot a year, and sometimes that doesn;t even work because the breeding doesn't take, so I wouldn't waste my dollars on anything except a show-proven and offspring-proven stud.
And in places like Nevada where Ragdoll lives you could always use shipped semen to get a good baby, but if there is nowhere to show it, I guess there is no reason to have a great horse unless you want to travel to shows.
Now I'm starting to ramble so I will just shut up!! That's my two cents though!

Ok I have a few minutes so here is our general ideas not saying anyone else is right or wrong but just our philosophy in stallion ownership... we

1st-bought a stallion with good papers world champion cutters/cow horses on the top side.

2nd- they have to be shown and proven in the show ring for me our stallion has USTRC money earnings and is close to finishing his superior in AQHA he has also been to the world show and was 1 pt from the finals we are pushing to be in the finals this time. I think a stallion should be a money earner if cutter/reiner needs to be +50k in their association if AQHA a superior is a must for a performer- If I am going to breed to them.

3rd-he must have get that are being proven in the show ring. This is where we are now we have a 4 yr old (his oldest that we are getting ready for the reining ring.) You have to be willing to do this yourself for the 1st couple babies then you will find people will be willing to take a chance on you.

4th-I am very picky about mares that I will breed to our stallion he doesn't have a lot of foals for his age but to me I would rather not breed a mare than have a poor representation of my stallion. We have only been breeding our mares and 1 or 2 outside mares because of his show schedule. We will continue to "screen mares" I guess you could say. I won't breed mares that aren't well cared for or in poor health to begin with. I want quality mares so we produce quality foals. We have an introductory fee of $500.00 which will go up if he does well at the world show this year. We are trying to weed out people who won't care for or feed their mares and colts, people who aren't willing to vaccinate and train etc... Im not afraid to tell someone no. We are hoping to add shipped semen after this year when he retires from showing. We keep him in the Incentive Fund which I noticed a lot of the cow type people don't.
We went out and bought some of the top of the line mares that complement our stallion in pedigree, conformation and produce records, so even if we didnt breed outside we could produce 4-5 very nice top of the line babies a year.

I know that in Arizona, everyone who has a stallion thinks they should breed it, period. It really irks me because I see some horses out there that don't really have anything going for them body wise, and have never seen the world outside their back yard. Yet, they still seem to justify advertising their stallions for outrageous stud fees. Here's my scenario...

I bought Scotch after looking for over a year, had a breeder I trust with all my heart pick me out her best stud colt out of her 2006 crop and he was actually her nicest colt that year, period. I already had my plans for him, spend his weanling and yearling year showing him in every show I could find pretty much, AQHA and open. I wanted to take him to the buckskin worlds in Colorado as a yearling or two year old and we decided on his two year old year because he would have a better chance, be more mature. If we qualified for the AQHA world show, we would hands down go, no matter what it took. (Which is a goal for next year too.) So far, we've won a high point halter championship and have placed consistently in the top two at every show, done very well at the AQHA show. I'm doing my job of getting him out there, letting him prove himself enough until he is three, and then our direction is going to change to his riding career, where he will be professionally started and finished in western pleasure, then followed by further showing in that field if he is competitive enough in it. He will also be bred to a max of five mares his 3yo year, one of which is mine. The offspring of mine will be shown until sold, and I already have most of the other mares lined up, all are show homes where the babies will be shown too. If I don't get any good foals out of his first two crops, then he gets the big snip and just becomes a very nice gelding. I don't think owning a stallion is for everyone, it's very expensive to own one period because of the housing for them, then add in there the promotional steps to make yourself marketable (offering AI services, advertising, showing, etc.) it all adds up to a very expensive amount. That is, if you really want to breed on a full scale basis. I'm lucky because I don't have Scotch just for stallion material, I bought him first and foremost as a show horse, so I get to do something I love to do and hopefully make a little bit of cash off of it too. But, it's something I've really had to dedicate myself to doing, spent a lot of money on it, and I've made a lot of sacrifices along the way. But, I'm taking the steps I think will work for me in this particular area, hopefully they will result in something good

Talking about shipping, etc. and the incentive fund. Checked on the incentive fund before I made this comment, a superior, 50 points would get you $26.49 per point, which totals $1,324.50... now I'm not sure how they break that down, as far as owner, breeder, etc. but as a stallion owner, who doesn't want to breed a whole lot of mares, it's not beneficial to me to put my stud in the incentive fund... plus the danged thing comes around Christmas, and I've got other important things to pay for during Christmas. As Lynn stated on the incentive fund with the cutters and reiners, also a lot of jam-up halter studs are not doing the incentive fund, either.

As far as shipping... I know it works, but it didn't with me, and it cost me a whole lot of money, that I wasn't able to recoup back. I've heard dozens and dozens of horror stories what people end up paying by the time they get their mares bred - something that I absolutely refuse to do. Now, if you've got a top mare that's got some points on her, and she's the only one in teh backyard, then groovy; but if you've got five jam-up mares, you're talking about a whole, whole lot of money here. Something that I can't afford, much less hauling mares back and forth to the vet - it was a nightmare before, times five would blow my mind.

And yep, I guess in this, it goes back to the mare putting so much on a baby, very few studs have the ability to give their all to the baby. Studs compliment, they don't usually do it, even half the baby. Thus, our abilities to make sure our mares are jam-up.

I think this is very interesting, though, everyone's take on what they would or are doing. Different strokes for different folks. I can tell you one thing...when I get a funky baby, I don't get rid of the stud - I get rid of the mare... HA!

Well, dang it you all wrote too much for me to read. Here is my take on it. And, why leave a horse a stallion if you do not use him for breeding? That is just not fare to the horse. Geld him and let him have a life. Ride him and have fun. And, what about the unregisterd horse breeding mares? That is way off as far as I am concered..

First of all a well campained stallion is not a proven stallion. I do not care how much BS you pay for. Does not make the stud or the mare a provem producer.. Second of all, he who has the most money will win. And, how much are you comprimising your horses to do this? Me not a dime. I will not do it. I have seen CRAP out of the most publisized hores in the world to prove what I am saying.

People who buy these designer horses get just what they deserve. Some good and some not so good. It is all about the money and polotics. I refuse to play the game with my animals. If I never breed a mare but my own so be it.

I have a nice stallion who produces nice babies. You have to find your market. If it is back yard then good for you. Do it.

So, all you folks looking for something with points/titles. I hope you have a ton of money to get the right person on your horse to win no matter how bad it is. That is the only way that will happen for you. And, all you folks who breed for what you like no matter RIGHT ON!!!

OK, that;s ny story and I will always stick to it. Have seen it and done it..

I can tell ya, I've seen some papered mares that are just out of this world, on paper. You see a picture of them, and I'm thinking, good Lord, almighty, what the heck happened there.

I tell ya, though, my friend that I helped those couple of years, breeding over 50 some odd mares, live cover, mind ya, liked to have drove her slap nutso. Do you know she doesn't own not one horse now, and I'm telling ya, that girl had the gift of hitting a market before it got real big, and made a killing off breeding, buying and selling, and knowing when to change before a change in the market started - a pure gift. But she got burned out so bad, you can't even hardly talk hroses with her anymore. And for me, I've never scooped so much danged poop in my life! Lordy!

So I've been through a lot of mares, having those blasted heifers everywhere, and I'm telling ya, if you're not set up for it, it's a blooming bugger! Trying to keep people's mares safe, if you live cover. Now, as far as AI'ing, shipping, etc... me and Bluejay talked a lot about that, and if somebody called me on a day they needed semen shipped, I'd be sorely PO'd, because I have to drive almost 2 hours, back and forth to get it to FedEX'd... now if you think I'm doing that for even a mere $500 a pop, somebody's lost their mind; not including all the yeyaw that goes with it.

I definitely think it's in the eye of the beholder and what somebody wants to do. Me, I want to breed a few mares a year, show my horses that I raised, do well with 'em, hopefully, and then sell 'em. I don't like a lot of lookie loos, spend enough time on this danged internet anyway, and especially don't like it when I'm woke up during my nap - okay, that's a I'm getting old person comment... HA!

Now, if I could make tons and tons of money off any stallion or mares that I owned, and could do horses exclusively, I'd do it in a heartbeat... but I can't... somebody has to work to pay the gosh-darned bills....unfortunately!

I agree with some of what you say Bluejay but we made it not only to the world show in 2005 but got 16th in a field of 54 horses on a horse w/o a big name w/o a big name trainer w/o a big name owner(who don't have much money ) I say politics weren't playing a part at all there. Now I swear if you watch the tape from the prelims we should probably have made the finals but that is politics and we didn't really expect to make it as rookies to the world show in an open senior event. Bitter sweet oh well.... and to me a performance horse needs to have a performance record. For example, a cutting horses that just has a good pedigree or is pretty to look at isn't worth breeding too when there are tons of really good quality, pretty, cutting horses that have big records with produce with records if he can't do it or just hasn't, cut him and let him have a good life as a gelding. Thats all Im saying. Performers need to performer.

Mercy, Stallions:

There is more expense to owning stallions then just horse care. Theres having the extra stalls and paddocks to put the outside mares and foals in . Theres the Futurities to put them in, Incentive fund programs, Dealing with public, Getting your stallion trained for I.A.ing, that expense, then containers, Getting the containers back, Filing the paper work, making sure the mare owners have all there ducks in a row, Culters, coggins, health certs, then theres the extra insurance just in case. The extra special fence just in case. All the JUST IN CASE's that are there as a responable stallion owner we face.

Yes, I agree a preformace horse, no matter what, of how many world champions is on its papers, might as well be a gelding unless he proves himself. Halter is another story. There are some tuff Halter stallions out there that they have not been shown but Produce Kick butt foals.
Guess that is the way it is in preformace . But for some reason, I want a preformace bred horse to preform. Guess, in halter, you go so much on looks, thats more important to me. On one Forum, it says Great show mares dont always make great brood mares, I believe this is true with stallions as well.

Now as a stallion owner, sometimes its up to us as the stallions owners to do the promoting. If your not willing to promote your own foal why should someone else???? How many times do you see, a young horse being shown and you walk up to them and ask who is your colt by???? Can you as a stallion owner afford to promote your own foals?

I don't think anyone can get past the bottom-line. How much does it cost to put that baby on the ground? As a mare owner, I sure have to think twice about breeding. First there is the stud fee, the chute fee(often not included with stud fee), pre-breeding vet check, the charge for mare care, (what if she's there for more than one month?) I have to hope that my mare is well cared for....another vet check to confirm she's pg...or not. Ultra sound? That costs even more. I forgot to mention shipping her to the stud and back....While she is gone, I may have to upgrade my fencing/barn. Then I wait for almost a year. That foal needs to be healthy....and worth at least what I have into the project the minute he/she hits the ground. That could be upwards of $3,000.00!!!!!! What he/she is a Paint with no color? What if he/she developes angular deformity? (that surgery isn't cheap) You hold your breath for at least 3yrs , hoping that the baby doesn't cripple or kill him/herself. I swear, they are all suicidal!!!!!!! Then there are training expenses, if you can't do the job yourself. These expenses really can't be avoided by either the stallion owner, nor the mare owner. You just hope you can break even, and that your baby ends up being worth at least as much as the grade, backyard-bred horse next-door.

Ragdoll this is why I think sometimes it is better as a stud owner to have good quality mares and raise great babies get them started and have something very nice to offer to the public for sale that is a great representation of my stallion. Not such a risk for the mare owner either you don't have big risk you can come and pick from nice colts that have made it through those rough spots that you know had good nutrition and lots of handling as babies and usually hopefully will have proven sibilings soon

Lynn....I absolutely agree with you. If anyone is going to make money breeding horses, it's going to be the stallion owner who breeds their own mares. Even then, the stud owner has the expense of buying and keeping those mares. Reversing the situation....mares, especially proven broodmares, cost money. The breeder who doesn't own his/her own stud has the expense of the stud fees AND all of the expenses that go with it every year. To use round numbers...If I have 10 mares, it'll cost me 10-times the stud fee, plus 10 times the expenses. Will I make back the stud fee, expenses, AND make a profit? What if I lose a foal....Or a mare? And how much is considered a profit? It isn't worth anyone's time if there isn't enough profit to be made. I wouldn't want to earn $1.00 a day.

The mistakes my friends made were easy to see. All were way too confident. Only one of them actually hung ads in the grocery stores. I saw no ads in the newspaper. All but one of the studs was exceptionally well-bred. It didn't even matter that none of them had ever been shown. No-one knew that they were here. Then there was the fact that for this area, the stud fees were way too high. Plus, there aren't too many mare owners who want to be without their horses for a month at a time.

Advertizing nationally is over-kill if the stud hasn't won/placed at a national level. I would advertize locally/state-wide. Show those babies myself....Sell them myself. You'll make more money selling a baby with real halter points. Save one or two of the nicest to train and show in your prefered classes.....And keep and open mind. The baby that you're sure will be a cutter, might be better in pleasure.

if molly wasn't a dang appendix she would have a date with kid or phenom in a few years!

I don't even know if I want to breed her -- I mean I love her and maybe she'll end up being good in the show pen but she isn't terribly special (don't tell her I said that -- she thinks she's the queen )

but I wouldn't have trouble getting her pregnant -- she stayed in heat for like a month when this new stud came to our barn she's pretty easy I guess


well if you stud owners want your babies shown on the east coast -- pack their jammies I'd be happy to show them! show these CT people what a real halter horse looks like


but I digress:

Lynn and Ragdoll you guys seem right when you show your own babies you pick your own mares. -- It means not having to take that last mare that isn't well bred but you need the money kind of thing


oh yea hey 7cedars where to I come into play in your fantasy? -- polishing your golden trail poles at your horse palace? sheesh!

haha jk

Sorry, Superlope, if you're a hard worker, and you sure sound like you are, we'll fit you in! We would always need tons of people riding all these things that's being trained - cuz I ain't getting on 'em!

I think it's so neat that we all have different ideas about things, based on our past experiences, etc. Me and TripleJ talked about that this afternoon.

Truthfully, I tell ya, if I had the money and could afford it, I'd be promoting the hell out of everything I thought would even come close to doing well in the ring... I promise you that! I would absolutely love to do nothing but clean stalls, work horses, rub on horses, etc... but I need to be realistic!

I have two things in my life that are more important to me than anything in this world and they are my sons - like you guys didn't know that already, but if something takes anything away from them, whether it's the horses or whatever, the she wolf makes adjustments - pure and simple.

I've been at this long enough to know how much money I've wasted over the years - let's not even talk about that - that just makes me sick to my stomach... and how I've let some dreams go, but focused on a dream at a time when it comes to the horses. I know that to accomplish my goals, I've got to head down/butt up-type scenario and I know what it takes to win. What is always the kicker is, do you have what the judges like - everyone has different likes/dislikes. But I have an edge - I've owned my own business for so long, that you'd think it would've kicked in earlier (DUH!!!!) but now I'm more focused - know exactly where I'm heading. Will I change in a couple of years? Maybe... but I do know one thing, I don't care if that sucker has papers out the yazoo, doesn't make it a winner; or whether there's not a known thing on it, if it wins the world, by gosh, somebody will offer you some big time money when you come out of that ring - in any discipline.

In essence, you deal with what you've got and what you can afford. My babies might not be world show quality - who cares... and then again, they may be... but that's not what I'm after. I'm after some good times of showing, working with my horses (keeping this danged kink out of my shoulder) and hopefully getting some good babies on the ground to show and then sell. If something doesn't fit the program, they're gone - period! I'm past the point of keeping them all just because I love them... I can't. But I can make sure what I choose is better fitted for my program, cross my fingers, legs and everything, and hope to heckie pooh whatever comes out of that mare is what I'm looking for.

And I'll tell you something else... by gosh, when I take mine in to a quarter show, they're ready! I mean, they are just flat ready. I go to win, no fooling around on that deal - ain't wasting my money for nothing.

7C....I'm with you 100%!!!!!!!!! I think a lot of the money-maker-studs are just the result of good luck....and the money to get them down the road. Take a look at the studs in the QHJ. I see a bunch of too-straight hocks, funking necks, even funkier heads.....hips that don't tie-in right. Feet so tiny, they're like shetland feet. Not to mention bad knees and too straight shoulders. The stud fees are enough to floor you!!!!!!!

I wish I didn't have to work. I wish I had the time and money to stay home and do nothing but play with my horses, and haul to those shows that are hundreds of miles away. Unfortunately, that's not my reality. I have to go to work every night. (I'm getting ready to leave soon) I've always felt my mare has the stuff to go places. I really lucked out with my colt. He cost me nothing but the feed for his mom, and the cost of gelding, shots, foot trims, and worming. AND....The infamous trainer, who has let me know that she basically thinks he's too good for me. The same trainer who hasn't contacted me in a month.

OH MY, Still so much to say on the subject. I stand my ground about the horse it's self. If you have a fancy trainer that can get you in the points more power to ya. Of course there is money involved.

I am tired of spending money and going in the hole on my horses. Now, I have made money on some. Just not enough to make me jump up and down. $6500.00 for a weanling does not give me a thrill.. Top stallion by the way..

I refuse to go that directions.. I have a nice horse who would go supper under saddle.. Why, would I do that if I do not plan to keep it up? I trust none of the trainers. Been there done that and seen what they for buko bucks....


I stand by what I say. A horse is a horse. If you are making profit then keep doing what you do. I invest too much. I do not go cheap no way no how. They all get the best.. If not then re think your statedgy.. I do not really care about all that.. And, the market sucks so, have at it. I am not going to sit back and enjoy and worry about it.. Because none of that matters to me.. I like what I have and that is #1 in my mind. I have been down this road a long time.. And, this is how you feel when you have seen it all..

Don't even bother to tell me I am wrong. I have been around it too long and know all the BS. If you are satisfied with what you do then that is what you should do..

By the way a few hundred bucks is not worth the effort to me. Niether is a few thousand.. I will just keep on keeping on and watch the rest of you.. And, if you think a stallion that has points or accomplishments such as world titles you should breed to them and see what you get. If you like it do it again. It really all boils down to your taste in horses.. BLAH BLAH BLAH..

And ragdoll, if you were born rich instead of so GOOD LOOKING, you would not have this problem..

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! BJ.....You're so kind!!!!!!!!!!!

Awww, Bluejay, quit beating around the bush... tell us how you really feel.

wow I think this is the greatest group of horse owners ever assembled!

you ladies are right on!

Bluejay, you get on that soap box. Just tell us how you feel on the matter.. Hee Hee... you go girl! Peeking over the top of the book to see if its safe to come out now.... Hee hee.

Ok, Halter stallions, I think way differant then preformace. Why Differant.
Good tall looking Blonde with muscles and a big pretty eye, Good hair too.
Next door, tall and dark and hansome, super tan. Hummm What ya think ole mare, which one tickles your fancy.
Halter is looks. Period. If he produces some preformers along the way great, but Hes either got the look or not. Halter horses, you don't have to wait 2 or 3 years, futurties and yearlings can start proving themselves.
I dont think halter stallions have to have a bunch of points, they just need to put some pretty babies on the ground, they get promoted. And his babies make him. (really the mare makes him thats another subject?) PS, most of our halter stallions on this forum, if sent to the right person, could be taught to rope off of, and snap a cows neck, they would have plenty of stop behind them. Just because they halter doesn't mean they can only halter! Nope! Nope!

Preformers is another story, I want the preformer to have points. I want to know he has been there done that, I want to know his foals are doing something. And its a longer waiting game. More money invested in the foal, and a longer wait.

I agree with Bluejay in the fact none of us are in this to get rich, because if you are you had better get out quick. There are a few that find that one buyer that is willing to pay a fortune. Dang it if you out there my email address is..... Hee hee. We, the most of us, hope they might pay for themselves. Hope. If not we are in love with those big brown eyes, sometimes blue. And its because we are hooked on our horses.

We all have to do what is best for us. What I say has nothing to do with what everyone else is doing.. I do not ride there for I do not breed for pleasure. Simply because I would have to pay a trainer and I think you all know how I personally feel about them. By the time I did this I would never see a break even situation anyway..

Everyone tells me I should get Tommy under saddle and how wonderful he would be since he can move.. Well, I say, why would I do that if I do not ride and would not keep it up? He has other lines on his papers that do other things such as pleasure and working. His babies will be able to go either direction when they get with new owners and they take them that way..


I think as long as you are doing what you feel is right and love what you are doing then GOOD JOB.. That really is what it is all about.. I enjoy reading about all the different things and directions people are going on here.. Would be dull if I thought my way was the only way.. And, as I told 7C today.. All I did was add my feelings to this thread and it has nothing to do with what others were saying. In fact I did not even read most it. So, hopefully no one thought I was talking about them cuz I wasn't..

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if molly wasn't a dang appendix she would have a date with kid or phenom in a few years!

You can still breed her, according to my very savvy informent (Lynn) ...you'd just need to get an ROM on your mare (or the foal they had) and POOF!!! you've got regular AQHA papers!

It doesn't matter to me....Appx or regular number. My Angel's mom was born Appx....She got a ROM in racing some-odd years ago. They didn't bother to pay the $50.00 for the regular number til a couple of years ago....Therefore, Angel was born Appx. The AQHA sent me a letter, saying that since Angel's mom was finally advanced, I just had to send $50.00, and Angel would have her regular number too. I've got to get off my dead behind and get that done.