Conditioning

OK halter people here is the MILLION $ question.

I have halter fit horses for a long time. The problem I have here is my stallion. Most of you have seen him.

This is my problem. I will not and cannot feed him alfalfa or heavy grain. I need to get him fit to show. Now, those of you who have seen him may think he is fit. And, he is. I just need to firm him up without gaining a ton of weight and need to maintain what he already has..

I have a few things in mind but wanted to tap your thoughts on this..

Here is what he eats right now:

3lb oats daily (this is total ration for the day)
1 scp MSM x1
1 oz fast track x1
1.5 oz DAC Orange x1
1.5 oz DAC Bloom x 1
daily wormer x 1
2 oz DAC oil x1
1.5 oz Glucosomine
3 cups soaked beet pulp daily

10lb Timothy cubes and 2 flakes orchard grass.. Daily
What do you think I can do to firm and build him?

A good friend reccomended 1/4 cup of soybean meal, it's very high in protien and builds muscle ;o)

What are you doing as far as a work-out for him? I know you guys are getting some serious weather up there, but what can you do now, or how long do you need BEFORE you start showing him?

Tommy has not had any work for over a year. He does get out in arena while his stall is cleaned daily (deep bedding). He runs around, rolls then stands and chews on wood waiting to get back in his stall.. That is why he is not firm.. I have large round pen with sand and the arena... He will be worked in the arena for now.. Too wet outside..

He is terribly lazy and I think I get more work then he does.. He really is lazy..

They soy sounds good. It is about 46% protien and would firm him up without adding fat? How much should I give him?

Maybe throw in some light trotting on a lunge line.

I will have to do that.. Just do not want him to slim down anymore.. He really does look good now.. Just jiggles when I brush him...

ha ha!! Tommy's got the jiggles! I got a good giggle outta Tommy's jiggles!!

Bluejay, had a friend that always used that daily wormer - had problems with his weight, not a halter person either. She took away the daily wormer, and just wormed and rotated him real well every month, and baam, within 30 days, he'd put his weight back on. Just a suggestion.

I've hesitated about answering this, but most of ya know me, so I'll just jump in feet first...

Me, I like a good overall balanced feed, that I can actually see what I'm feeding, and I even switched to pellets this last year, mainly because of the danged flies! I always put in some minerals and vitamins in there, which is in a loose form... and if I feel like I need to add some fat, I'll do it either with soy or corn oil. I'm a little leary about adding this and that - just because I don't know what the heck I'm doing to my horse overall.

To me, as far as the muscling and getting fit, that is in the work-out. Most of you know, I'm a firm believer of the golfcart. I almost ruined Kid in the round pen, and never will I work a horse in a round pen again, except to use as a TOOL for manners. I cannot tell you the difference a golfcart will make in your horse. They are in peak condition, and I don't play around, I work the dog snot out of mine... none of this 10 minute junk. And they all seem so much happier, quietier in the stall after their work-out and sweating, in fact, they're usually all taking naps in the afternoon, rearing to go in the morning to see the sights and everything in the pasture. It's quiet, it's a good time for owner and horse alike, clears the head, etc. Kid likes it so danged much he's literally jumping up and down to go when he sees the golfcart out. He won't be going on it hardly anymore, except the occasional, just me and him thing as a treat.

I'm also a firm believer of 50% weight of grain and 100% weight in hay. Example, feeding 4 pounds a day; hay should be at least 8 pounds a day. I feel good quality alfalfa and my horses don't get hot, and it's in front of them at all times. Well, okay, except for Kid, he'd rather eat alfalfa than his feed.

Also, I watch mine like a hawk. Once I start working them out, one horse may get more of one thing than the other. I base it strictly on how they're coming along and touch, of course.

I also worm my show horses once a month, rotating. Start off with the 5 pack of Panacur, and alternate it every other month.

My vet is having me give 1 pound of soybean meal to my older rope horses each day. If you buy the meal not the pellets (pellets have sugar), it should put muscle on and not fat.

The reason he is having us give it to our teenage horses, is that when they hit about 13, they have no more growth hormones. Without the GH, their bodies turn sugars to fat instead of muscle. Protein, however, still can be turned to muscle, so giving them the soybean meal, which is high protein, fills out their topline nicely.

Be careful though, Soybean meal can cause founder. He said I could give my horses 1 to 2 pounds each day, but because of the founder issue, I'm not going above 1 pound.

Edited to add: You might try platinum performance. The supplement has really helped keep weight on Splash & Zane and has helped their overall condition. www.platinumperformance.com

I just pulled 100lb off him. The rest of the story is he got a slight case of laminitis from all the feed he was getting and he was really heavy.. I was lucky and caught it right away.. There is no damage and he is just fine.. I had digital x-rays done on him to verify that.

However, I need to keep his weight down and firm him up. He cannot have alfalfa (my choice of roughage). Too much sugar in it.. I have used the soy before at 1/4 cup a day on horses that were in rescue shape and it really worked well. Once he starts working he will try to slim down even more.. I would like to keep his shape and add some muscle to it..

I did receive some information on feeds that are low in surgar and carbs. The other thing is keeping cost down since I am feeding several horses and cannot affored to spend a ton of money on one horse..

These are some really great ideas given here and I guess I need to jump out and try some of them. Thanks for all you help and if you think of anything else let me know..

I went to a presentation by Nutrena feeds last week, and they have some really great low sugar, low carb feed in their lineup. It sounds like a lot of research backs up their feed. I'm going to their website soon to check it out and read a little more. I was very impressed though but I need to feed out my huge supply of Omelene before I can consider switching. Nutena is way better than Omelene though, I compared the nutrition facts. There is so much involved in equine nutrition, though, it's like being back in school studying it all. I have alot to learn!

7C, as far as the daily wormer goes I have fed that to all my horses since they were wee little ones. All my horses are fat too...

I do paste them twice a year though. One of the things I have found to be of real value to it is the fact that it can and does prevent colic. I never trouble with that monster. My horses are kept in except on good weather days. Then they get out to pasture for the day and come back in at night.. We live in the woods and they have a safe zone. We only have 5 acres and it is really nice in the spring and summer for grazing. Otherwise it would be 5 acres of mud..

I totally agree with the balanced feeding.. Infact feeding 101 tells you 75% roughage and 25% grains. Now we all know halter horses do get more grain. I may need to pump his up.. I plan to get him going again next week and will have to make adjustments. I did learn through all this that if you soak the hay for 20+ minutes it will take the sugar out of it. I have thought I might be able to use the Alfalfa/Timothy cubes in him since it is processed with water and should pull some of that surgar out. Also, the alfalfa he was eating at the time this happened was VERY HOT.. And he was not working. I may just be paranoid. I was so scared when this happened I have a tendency to go to extremes..

Stockman, Nutrena does make great feed and it is readily available around here.. Expensive though.. Also, wanted to ask you if you are Pistol or her Mom? That horse looks very familure and she said her dad grows alfalfa..

Question here.... I always thought and was told that coastal hay has more sugar in it than alfalfa.

I have found, though, just from watching other people's horses and what they feed, that adding all this stuff to their feed will actually make the horse hot, not the alfalfa. It's the combination of things.

Yes, Bluejay, I am Pistol's mom! Actually, her name is Grace! I was AQHAshowmom on the old forum. Grace was inspired by everyone starting forums and she started her own, mainly for her own preteen horsy friends. It's quite an impressive task for a 12 year old. It's under the same format as this forum so it's easy to read, and she managed to put zillions of smilies on there, which is what they love! She also talks some on that horsegrooming supplies site some if she needs real advice, because I wouldn't trust any advice coming off her forum, it's mainly just middle school gossip and horsy mis-information!

Why the Bloom & Orange??? I think the Orange is a good complete vitamin.
Seems like there is alot of overlapping of ingredients in the feed outline?
I do love Dac Oil and Orange -

just my thought.

I feed the colt grower, bloom and DAC oil to my growing colts.. It looked to me like they overlap too.. This is the combination that DAC recomends for growing colts that are being halter fit.. The colts look GREAT and no growing pains such as leg troubles.. I will always use this combination in the future with my weanlings and growing babies..

I also keep the CMZ paste on hand for even more added minerals in the event we get a bouncing knee or other things that look like the start of trouble with the legs.. All minerals, no drugs and I would not be without this product either... I am able to feed and fit the way I like to without worries..

Well, my stallion is pretty much grown now.. It was recommeded by DAC to add the bloom to the Orange and DAC oil.. So I did... He is mainting his new figure on this..

I learned about these products from friends and now all my horses eat DAC. I wish I had known about them a long time ago..

I understand what you say about the over lap. I am a label reader and it seemed like it was all the same stuff.. All I know is it works ...

I did take some convincing...

Actually if you look at the rundown on the Bloom and the Orange they don't have the same things. I have looked at both of them and I knocked the bloom out of what I feed.

I am a fan of DAC and use their products but if you look at the ingredients in bloom and orange there is quite a bit of difference.

The CMZ Paste I am a big fan of, I suggest anyone having a foal to have a supply of it on hand just in case.

Also anyone who is hauling young horses should take a look at their 9-1-1 paste. I had Miracle on it and hauled her as a weanling from OK to NY and she never got sick once when horses around her did.

Just remember to much of one thing can turn toxic.

Exactly.

I do not feed the bloom and orange to the growing colts.. As I said they get the colt grower, bloom and DAC oil. Bloom is a fatty acid (calories) and my stallion gets Bloom, Orange and DAC oil with very little grain to substain his weight. And, yes too much of a good thing is not good.. That is why horses knuckle over and their legs break down when they are young. Been down that road too..

Bloom is a great product to add calories.. The orange is a good vitamin/mineral product for all horses and that is why the rest of mine get orange

When you are faced wtih a rapid growing baby (I have them) you need to know when to push and know when to lay off.. The CMZ paste can help you with that but you have to go the mile with it and not over do or you will destroy them.. I have done that too.

I have not used the 911 paste.. Sounds like it might be good for hauling a weanling to the futuity if they are shakey.. Mine are not that close to having trouble.. I did have one who was with a trainer and he could have used that.. They just gave 5 buffered asprin before and after the long haul and that worked just fine..

BlueJay the 9-1-1 paste is for the horses system, it builds them up so they do not get sick. Alot of times we haul in and you never know whats in the air that can make your horses get run down/sick this is a preventive measure.

Here is a link for anyone interested in it, I used it and for all the long distance hauling I did my horse did not pick up/get sick at all or run down.

9-1-1 Paste : DAC-911P : Supplements : Special Needs : Direct Action Company, Inc.

Tara, sounds like a great product to use on the little ones going to the futurity.. I always worry they will get something in the show barn.. I have had a few that did get sick from two different facilities around here.. The last thing you need at this time is for one who comes down with something.

I just ordered from DAC.. I recieved an email that if you mention in comments you want the Washington Birthday sale you can get the Orange, Colt Grower and another product buy 20lb and get a second 20lb for $2.22. Also, when I ordered it popped up with a free Neutralizer. So, I can try that one too.. I can try to find the email if anyone is interested and forward it to them.. HEY A NEW ICON...YEA

All in All, DAC produces good product... but it takes more than what you feed to produce that halter winner... alot of time and commitment as well

This is my girl in the Spring of her 2yr old year.