Screaming Stud Colt

Please please please can someone tell me how to teach my screamer NOT to scream ??

He doesnt scream in his stall, only when hes tied alone or turned out. Hes alone 1/2 the time when he goes out, other than that he has his best friend in the whole wide world with him.

He only does it when he is turned out alone or tied alone, and he does it when he sees the grown horses in the pasture when Im leading him to his turn out.

99% of the time its that high pitched squeal, the other times its a low grunt, like when someone else leads their horse up to the rail to tie next to him.

Ive tried checking him, but he got over that pretty fast, now it doesnt phase him. My other stud colts didnt give me this problem, they were quiet guys....not this one.

Any suggestions or tips would be VERY appreciated!

This is a tough one because in reality it's just not something we can control. My only tips for you that have worked for me in the past are these:

1. If he does it while you're handling them, either snap the lead rope at him or do something that makes him uncomfortable. (light tap on the muzzle, easily pinching the little "bump" on the bottom of his muzzle). You need to make sure you do it when he STARTS the screaming, not after. If you can make him uncomfortable, say stop or no very sternly, right when he starts screaming, he will eventually learn the concept that it's just easier to not do that.

2. When he does that when he's tied up, you leave him there for a good long time until he is relaxed and comfortable. I'm very adamant on babies standing queitly because if they stand nervously and are talkative at home, they're going to be horrible at a show or at their first outing. As a colt, I don't know your plans for keeping him intact, but this is a really, really bad behavior problem for a boy to pick up. If it were me, I'd leave him tied up there for as long as it takes for him to stand there nice and still and quiet, the way he should. Just make sure that he is tied up safely and stay around him or check on him. But I mean it, the only way he's going to really get the point that he can stand there quietly is if he really has the opportunity. Once he stands there for five or six minutes quietly and relaxed, like he could care less, reward him by putting him away and leaving him alone for awhile.

This is just what's worked for me in the past, good luck with him.

Thanks Silver. I am just as adamant as you are about standing quietly. All my babies know how compose themselves at weaning. But he is a special case, he tests me. I know I will get on to him for hollering and then stand there for a bit and then walk away. Then when I get about 15 feet away from him he does it again, and he knows he is just out of my reach for a quick reminder.

I havent had to use a stud chain on him yet, but I am strongly considering putting it on him. Hes not wild, but hes unpredictable. I guess thats the general thing for all horses.

I have almost started to think it may be seperation anxiety. I know, it might not be possible for horses, but thats what it seems like to me. He is absolutely in love with his neighbor. Him and her are the only ones left in the barn during the day, so they have alot of spare time to hang out together. They stand next to each other all day, side by side. Then when he gets turned out she goes with him 1/2 the time.

Does anyone think that a lip chain is too much too soon? I dont want to use it unless I absolutely have to. But I am also not afraid to hook it up to him either.

I noticed that there are alot of views on this topic...dont be shy, share!

Okay, I'm assuming this is a yearling colt... And you're right, it's totally a separation anxiety. Lordy, even if Scamp's out in Kid's pen, and I go and get Jazz, he throws a fit. Now, I can already see what's going to happen at a show. And I'll fix his little butt at the show... gotta plan.

However, if you've got ahold of him, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES is he allowed to holler... This is what I do, and it scares the beegeebies out of them. And I use the words under my breath "huh-uh"... all my animals know if I've said that, they'd best behave... anyhoo, if Scamp screams, I'll wheel around on him real quick, and this is with a regular lead rope, go to jerking down on the lead rope and making him back up VERY QUICKLY... I make him think I'm coming after him with everything I have. You need a stud colt to understand, and because they're stud colts, you've got to be extremely aggressive with them - trust me, you don't want to have something like Kid was... GAWD! I mean, you make them think that you're going to kill them... you don't even have to hit them with the lead rope or anything... you just need to make them think you will. All my horses now if I swing around real quick, somebody's in some serious trouble, and depending on how they act, then I react. Studs are a whole different ballgame, and they have to be taught very early. Needless to say, Scamp doesn't say a freaking word when I've got ahold of him anymore.

If they're in their stall or in a pen, they're in their domain... they're going to holler. If they're tied up, and they're screaming, just leave 'em there. Kind of hard, I know, because I want to go out and smack somebody, but just ignore 'em.

I forgot what the deal was, but Scamp threw the biggest gosh-darned tantrum in his stall one time, kicking the walls, etc... stupid idgit forgot I was still in the barn, I went in there and tied his butt up... and he still hollered... so I stayed down there, and every time he swung back around (kicked at the gate), Mom was there with a dressage whip, and I'd just pop the ever living snot out of his rearend and I'd act like what, I didn't do anything... it was so funny. As soon as I'd go around the corner, he'd start it again, and then I'd come around the corner and he wouldn't move... sneaky little toot.

I told Rick that when we go to a show when I'm showing Jazz, he's going to have to stay behind with Scamp... now I don't know if he's going to do what I would do, but we'll see. Short of it... you know that zapper that Clinton Anderson talks about... well, I'll be purchasing that. And as soon as I get through showing him and I have to take Jazz out, we're going to put that zapper on him, and Rick's going to be where he can zap him, and that'll be the end of that mess. But I'm going to see how he does this first couple of shows... but I figure he'll be screaming and kicking like crazy... but he won't for very long, huh-uh, ain't having that!

Kid is not allowed to holler whatsoever, when I have him in hand, unless it's breeding season, the lip chain is on, and we're heading down to the breeding area. If he even so much as opens his mouth before we get to a certain point where I say OKAY, I will turn on him like a snake and try to rip his head off... I'm not putting up with that mess! I hate that! Now, once we get to that point, he gets on his tiptoes, as studs do, and starts that danged screaming... he's allowed to do it then, but only then!

I think you guys may remember before that Kid used to throw a wall-eyed fit when I went to change at the show. Twice Rick had to send the boys to get me, and I'd come around the corner and whistle, and he'd stop immediately and start this hoo-hoo, Mom, where ya been mess. Biggest titty baby there ever was, I swear!

All colt and stallions are different, though. My paint stud, heck you could breed him with a hay rope, and the pointy finger was the deadliest thing alive... that sucker could back up faster than I could run. Whale of a stud in handling him, but Kid is way the opposite.

Tell ya something I read too about colts and stallions. Think it was a cutting or reiner trainer. When they get a new colt or stud in, if he starts that hollering business, they'll get 'em out and work the living snot out of 'em. Put them back up, if he starts that hollering again, they'll pull him out and work the snot out of 'em again... this guy swore by it...but I'm into halter, and I need weight on mine! HA!

Peppy wouldn't think of getting out of hand the only time he is allowed to dance and whinny is in his breeding halter. Most breeders have a specific halter for breeding and a halter for everything else that way the stallion knows what is happening from the get go. Peppy is the best behaved stallion I have ever been around he has never been in a stud chain tension on a lead rope and he hovers raise your voice and you probably won't get your mare bred because he will be hovering in the corner but remember most horses in cutting/reining/roping are tied in the arena with horses all around trainers don't tolerate any crap from them there just isn't time. He passes this along to his babies which I love however his boys have more testoterone than any colts I have ever seen I bred 2 outside mares for friends they got stud colts (of course) those boys were handfuls from the boy side of things w/in 2 weeks I told them to cut them fast now one is 3 and a pony club horse and his young kids at the stable are able to handle him w/o worries and the other is 4 and a 4-h project horse great athletes w/great attitudes.

Shiela pointed out something I was thinking and new I had forgot. When you turn him out in the pasture or in his stall, that is his domain, so what he does is really his own business. If he wants to scream and holler the whole darn time he's out there, go right ahead and let him, but when he's in your hands, that's different business. And, when he's tied up, you're asking him to do something, although not directly, you're asking him to stand there politely and quietly. The thing is, he does test you like you said, but the thing is, he has to learn to stand quietly more on his own, because at a show, odds are, you're not going to be with him when he's tied up at every second. Fix the problem at home first, and when he gets to the show, keep at it, make sure he understands that screaming isn't acceptable ANYWHERE, except in his own domain, respectively. You have some really good advice here, so I hope you use it As far as the lip chain goes, I'm a firm believer in the use of one. Not as punishment, but as a training aid. All of my babies know what a lip chain is, my fillies and colts, because if you're ever in a situation where you HAVE to use one, it's not going to be their first time wearing it and it won't scare them. I'm sure you know how to use a lip chain, so I'm not going to bother educating anyone on how I think it is properly used lol. All I can say is be gentle and remember that no matter how you look at it, he's still a youngin.

You are definately going to get some different perspectives here. I don't care for lip chains myself. I think a lip chain is for pretty serious behaviors and screaming is not a serious behavior meaning it won't hurt you. Screaming can be controlled without a lip chain but with other means ie: patience and time and comittement on your part. He needs to be separated from his buddies more regularly and start getting used to it. I would consider biting, striking, kicking etc.. something that MIGHT require a lip chain if all else failed. But that is my opinion. I just don't use them and have never needed them. I have worked around a lot of stallions in my life w/o the use of these. I haven't however worked around AQHA halter horses but I don't think they are any different though from the Morgans, Paso Finos, Arabs and Warmbloods I have been around maybe I am wrong though .

I hope no one took that as though I think it can be solved with a lip chain, lol, because I think too that it is a little much. I'm like you Lynn, I don't have a horse in my barn that I have to use one with, but all of my horses know what it is. I've never actually used it to really discipline anyone, but I'm also not scared of using it and I think it can be a good training tool if used in a proper way. I think they should make a horse more cautious rather than have them cause pain. But, Lynn is very right, as far as the lip chain goes, you will see a lot of different opinions, and everyone is entitled to theirs

Just a little tid bit. I have to say it's really nice to feel like you can post something on here without getting your head bit off. I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about. It's so nice that everyone can share their opionions, even if they are different, without being scared lol. Cudos to us for being so mature.

I agree, Silverbuckle, it's real nice to be able to put all of our opinions on here. What works for one horse may not work with another. I've had 5 stallions... Kid and Rocky are like night and day in every perspective.

When I showed Scamp last year, I had the chain under the chin... I know when you have a chain, especially a show chain, which is little and will bite like the dickens, if they go back, you go back, you don't try to hold them still, you'd best go with the flow, so to speak. However, with Kid, the only time I put the lip chain on is when I breed him -- isn't gonna be any other way on that deal...and when I showed him... I used to swear I'd never do that till I met Kid... I got mad one day at a show, came back out waiting on grand and reserve, put that danged lip chain on, with Rick screaming at me, and jerked as hard as I could. Needless to say, when we back in there for grand and reserve it was a whole other horse. Kid knows if the lip chain is on and we're going to the breeding area, he's fixing to breed. He knows if we're at a show, and I put the lip chain on, he's fixing to show and he best not say a peeping word or act stupid - and he doesn't.

Now with Scamp... you remember when we had that summer break like what, early January or whatever... I'd always worked him with a regular lead rope. Well, all of a sudden, he got stupid, forgot how to trot by the golfcart and then when I did get him to start trotting, then he wanted to pull my danged arm out... Fine. I went straight to the barn, got Kid's big rope with the stud chain on it, which is a bigger chain, and I put it under his chin, jerked it one time, and all of a sudden we remembered how we're supposed to work on the golfcart. And that was the end of that. He learns real quick.

Scamp's a lot more studdy than any of the other colts that have hit the ground here, that's why I stay right on top of him. But then again, I like something with a little hoohah in 'em, too.

Anyhoo, Bucks, just stay with it... these stud colts have to think that you want blood. You don't have to draw it, you don't even have to touch 'em, but by gosh, they sure think you are. I've seen my friend, Anita, on a stallion, riding on the road in front of my house, he screamed, she baled off, and that sucker literally put his butt on the ground, he knew what was coming... never heard a peep out of him after that when she was on him.

I'm just going to chime in on the lip chain thing. My babies all get to know what a chain sounds like and feel the weight of it. We just loop it through their halter for a few days when they are weaned and let them clank it all around in their feed bucket and everything. We just make a circle around their nose with it, loosly and snap it so they can't get it caught on anything. They gey used to the noise and the weight and it doesn't become something scary when they are older and might need it.
Since we have race horses, they get on their toes when they go to the track. They all come out with a chain on. I have a 2 yo gelding that has a chain that goes over his nose and under his chin...the lead isn't even snapped to it but he KNOWS that in just a matter of a second it could be so he bows his little head and behaves himself (he still hasn't come to grips with the fact that he is missing some parts down there).
This year I've only had to use a lip chain once and it wasn't even on a stud...it was on a 10yo broodmare who decided she was going to drag me all over eating green grass instead of loading in the trailer...we had a "Come to Jesus" talk...After a few minutes of schooling she plunked her big rear in the trailer and that was the end of that. When we went to get her AI-ed a few days later I just put the chain on the halter, snapped the lead on the halter and didn't even touch the chain and she behaved like the little lady she can sometimes be. It was just a reminder that even though you out-weigh me by 1100 lbs, you WILL obey!
As for the screaming - I rode with a cutting horse trainer for a while who had an Arab stallion in the barn (multiple champion arab cutter and who won a decent amount of NCHA money too) who had TERRIBLE manners! He would holler at everything that walked at the shows and the barn and NOTHING worked to make him shut up! After some creative thinking the trainer rigged a bark collar (set on lowest setting) and put it on sort of like you would a cribbing collar. I still remember the sound that horse made the first time he had it on! It was hilarious! He let out half a squeal real loud and then a little whimper...and that was the end of that! It took him about 5 days of that collar to get him completely broke to being quiet. At shows and at home all he would do is sigh when a horse walked by. He was just stumped that something had got him and he couldn't even see it. You could tell it blew his mind! I will say that the trainer did test it on his hand before he put it on the horse (braver than me...I don't like shocks)...I don't think its the best thing for a young horse but if you get one that is down right bad and older, it works, just make sure you know which setting you have it on! We actually built a wall for babies that is about 12ft high and 12 feet wide, solid wood that is set in about 10ft in the ground in concrete (it isn't going anywhere anytime soon) with a lead and snap coming off the top. Those kids get to stand there until they stand still. They can't see anything on the other side, they can't pull it over, they can't go over it, they can't go through it and they just learn to stand. It teaches them to be tied to a trailer, a stall or anything and they respect it...and if something comes up suddenly from the other side, it isn't the boogie man!

Love the tie wall Kidd everyone needs one in a training program a horse will learn more about patience from it than from us! As for those collars my husbands has bird dogs and every hunting season shocks himself once just to remind himself the power his has several settings including a vibrate followed by a shock kind of like a warning... has threatened to put it on me in my sleep he forgets he sleeps harder than I do HAHA may he doesn't forget as I have never woke with one on yet

On the shocky collar things... Clinton Anderson was talking about a stud at an infamous stud barn, and he'd disrupt the whole danged barn when people or horses were coming and going. It worked very well. At some point, I'll probably have to do that with Scamp. He just has a wall-eyed fit once I put Jazz up or he can't see her.

Also, it's something a friend of mine has always told me. If you let horse fight themselves, with no human contact, they actually learn a lot faster.

I've seen some of those gosh-darned race horses...went back to the barn in Houston one time with a friend of mine, and Lordy, he wasn't joking when he said, don't walk too close to the stalls - cuz some of them will sure jump out and touch ya... whew! Also, went to a running stud barn up around Dallas and I thought, good Lord, no wonder the mare I was boarding was like that, her Dad was just nasty, nasty, nasty.

I know one thing, it's easier to correct something that's say 700 pounds than something that's 1,200 pounds.

Tell ya a story. We used to have an own daughter of Senor George, who was Honor Roll Cutting stud, and is still on the "list". These old cutting horse guys used to love to tell us stories about what a rogue he was, he'd actually try and pick up a cow if it got too close. The old guy that had him, used to tell these young cowboys, I'll give you a $100 bill if you'll go in that stall with that stud - nobody ever did it, is the story we got. And ole Grandma, even at age 19 when we bought her, wasn't tough, but boy, you could sure tell she would've gotten nasty when she was younger. She was a tough old bird - we put her down at the age of 31, and she had her last baby at the age of 27.

The key is, how they're handled when they're younger. If you gain their respect and they know the rules then, when they're older, you won't have all those problems.

I've said this before... there is a book called "Body Language of Horses". If you've never read it, it'll sure open your eyes. I'ts a great book to have, to handle any type of horse. To be able to read a horse before something happens is the key.

I can't agree more about it being how they are handled when they are younger.

The 2yo gelding that is in race training I've owned since he was a weanling. He KNOWS that with me, there is no nonsense...well, mostly no nonsense...he knows what he can get away with, which isn't much (but I will admitt that I do let him have some freedom). With my fiancee he is a royal brat sometimes. He's like flying a kite! Never pulls on him but will buck in place, snort, jump and be just plain silly. Garrett lets him...they each have their own space. With me the guy bows his head and either walks or trots right next to me without so much as making the lead move. He just knows what each of us is okay with.

My 10yo broodmare that I got in November ----- oooooohhhhhhh she is a downright WENCH sometimes! She's had a rough life and she tells you all about it! She has a ball peen hammer sized DENT in her forehead, she broke her back left pastern as a weanling, went on to run AAA at the track and win a little, in her last race she fell and blew out her knee still finishing 3rd (they couldn't get her pulled up), she has foundered in one of her front legs and she is just downright wenchy sometimes! I did get her figured out though - NO men, just women AND if you tell her to do something you'd better back it up otherwise kiss it goodbye! She came to me with a red broodmare band around her neck as a warning - she bites and kicks...hmph, the only person she's even tried to kick (which she did nail pretty good) was a vet tech this week (a guy) who sauntered out into her turn out without a halter and tried to mess with her (as the vet said "dumba--".)...We call her our "Special Needs Mare". I know though if she'd been raised right she would be a completely different horse right now!

If you can't raise them, at least set GOOD and SOLID boundaries once you get them! Its amazing what a little bit of respect will get you...the 10yo broodmare - if it doesn't have to be done, its not getting done -- some days her stall doesn't get cleaned and some days she doesn't get groomed--I just evaluate her perspective on life when I get to the barn and take it from there--she knows when I go in there she's supposed to be good--sometimes I just look at her and know it isn't worth the effort on her part or mine and usually within 24 hours she is more than willing to get groomed on and have her stall prettied up!

Really - it is deciding what you are willing to put up with and then making sure the horse knows exactly what that is!

OOOPs - that was REALLY long, sorry guys!!!

I love hearing everyone's horsie stories. It's so funny how horses react so differently to people. I guarentee you, every horse in the barn would jump if my dad asked them too, but, I tell ya, it's more likely out of fear than respect. I also guarentee that those horses will do anything I want them too, including laying down on the ground, or just following me to the round pen without a halter on. They do it out of respect / love for me though. It was the neatest thing. The other day I took off Scotch's halter to school him for halter, he was perfect. I really think using vocal commands to reinforce physical cues has taught him a bunch. I can set him up in the middle of an arena without a halter on and tell him to "Set" and when I walk to the gate, you can bet your butt he stays right there, planted in place, but, I can call his name from the gate and he'll come runnin. I love that little guy, I tell ya. I should really look into doing showmanship with him.

I agree, Silverbuckle... voice commands with your hands are even better... but then even my neighbors hear me sometimes... HA!

When they're young, and they're in training, whether it's on the ground, or on top, everything has to be exaggerated... a little louder or a little stronger. As they grow, you can actually do it under your breath. They hear it, and Scamp's responding real well to that.

When I holler at one, I look around and the whole danged bunch, including the dogs are looking to see who's in trouble... so now I've had to use a name in front of it, to get whoever's attention.

I know one thing if I'm getting on another horse and Kid hears it, he becomes extremely aggravated - my paint stud was the same way. Funny, huh?

I'll tell ya though... me and a friend were talking, she's ten years older than me, and we've decided we're through with fighting these things - course she hates mares with a passion. Once a horse is taught something and gets it... it's not in their best interests to give me the "I don't have a clue what you're talking about" look...thankfully all of those nincompoops are gone from my place. I just flat won't tolerate it anymore.

This is all very interesting to me. None of my stallions or stud colts have ever been a screamer.. That would be a hard one to deal with and fustrating too..

There is no talking aloud when my colts are in hand. And, none have ever let out a scream. Even my stallion at breeding time.. If fact they do not even scream when a mare goes by the stall. Jump around a grunt but no screaming...

Oh, your day's a coming, Bluejay. Wouldn't hear a peep out of my paint stud till the mares got out of his eyesight, and Lordy, he'd go to screaming till one answered back, and then that was it, he'd settle on down.

Heck if I know what gets that mess started. Ever been at a futurity where the fillies are screaming at the top of their lungs? Mine didn't that, thank goodness, course neither did she stand up on her hind legs and flip over either. Goodness gracious!

Thank you all for all the suggestions. Today I did a little experiment. I tied him up with Vegas at first, let them stand there for a few minutes, and then I took Vegas away. I put her back in her stall and by the time I came back around th corner he started screaming. So I took off running at him full blast. He heard the noise and before he realized what I was doing I was in his face. I dont think that he knew what to do with that situation. He just kinda looked at me and for a minute I thought that he was going to cry! After I did that, he settled back down. I started to walk away, and he let it rip again. So I spun around and flew at him again, this time his eyes were so wide I could see the whites. I stood there again, left him, he roared again, I flew at him and did my buzzer noise. The saying 3rd times a charm makes sense. After 3 times of this, he got the point. He stood there like a perfect little man. I wont say that he is completely done, but I think today he started to underdtand the concept. He did holler after I put him in his stall, but I left him alone, afterall that is his house, his domain. I think we will get there, I just need to stay on top of him.

Thanks again to all of you!!

You know, isn't it funny as all get out to watch their expression. Half the time I have to go around the corner and giggle.

They're either thinking... "My Gawd, have you lost your mind!" or "What the heck is wrong with Mom today?" or "Good GAWD, she's going to eat me!"

Hilarious!

I don't know 7C. Not one ever in my barn has done that.. I have had several colts and stallions in here.. Even my girl friend who told me her stallion was very vocal would just let out some loud nickers sounds and through his big bodie around.. We do have some chatter and nickers.. Just no screaming.

We just collected Tom the other day and nothing but chatter out of him and these little squeaky sounds he makes on the phanom while being collected.. Nothing above a normal nicker and whinny..

Course my idea of screaming may be different of others. I have heard stallions screem and grunt before.. And when tied carry on with some loud whinnies and nickes sounding desparate. Just nothing like I remember a scream being.. With that said some ones interpretation of a scream may not be mine?

Not allowed to talk when he goes by a horse
Not allowed to talk when I have him.

We all have differant ways of doing things. Tuckers kept on a fine line. He's smart, & young. Feed to be in shape and Hes always feeling good.

ANY Stallion prospect should from the get go, be taught to be on that fine line. If he crosses it just a bit, they should be in trouble.

PS, just because you want a horse to be a stallion prospect, he may not be. Keep this in mind. As nice of a horse as Tucker is, IF he doesn't produce, then he is a gelding. There are to many stallions out there to keep a stallion that isn't producing. First foal is very nice, infact We were surprised. OK. so there are 4 more mares to foal out of him, We will see, I have been told to give him one more breeding season if we are not happy with the rest. Ok, so we will, but unless I see more of what he has already produced, He will be a tuff gelding! Plain and simple. Owning a stallion is a pain. We did for tax purposes. Unless you have enough money to promote, advertize and win, win, win. Its hard to get enough mares to him to say you are making money. So don't plan on getting rich. So I guess we will see if Tucker gets to keep his manhood. Hee Hee
We had a stallion went through 2 breeding seasons, now he's our really nice trail riding horse. We get why did you geld him, he's so nice. We'll he didn't out produce himself so, He's a really NICE looking trail rider! Hee Hee

I dont plan on getting rich off of a horse cause its darn near impossible. If I wanted to get rich I would do real estate or the stock market or something smarter.

He is a stud still, and will remain intact until he can prove himself in some way. The first test will be his training. Hes not a halter horse, so it wont be the same base as a halter stallion. I want to give him the shot to prove himself as a performer, roping, working cowhorse, or some WP if I feel the itch for it. If he is just phenominal (SP?) at performance, then I want to breed him, to see if he can pass on what he has that makes him so good. I would not keep a stallion just to keep one. I dont feel the need to say I have a stallion just to seem cool. If he doesnt pass on what he has or if he doesnt out do himself then he will be gelded. Plain and simple. I just wont let him be a stud to just hang around and not do much.

As far as promoting, thats fine with me. Im sure Im not the only one that is willing to spend the money to get a stallion out there. At least that way I will know that I tried. I believe he deserves a chance to prove himself. He is too good of a mover, that boy can slide to a stop the length of a football field, he will spin a hole in the ground for you where you want to put a new T Post. He has natural motion. He has what Vegas doesnt, she will need to be taught, his is natural. So I figure why not spend the money to see if he will be worth it as a stallion? I am ready for it, so is the check book. What better way to start spending a trust fund?

PS..I hope this doesnt sound like I am ripping your head off. I was trying to clear up anything that didnt make sense. I really do appreciate all the input and comments, I really do. What better way to learn than from someone who already has a stallion out there and is promoting?

At least two breeding seasons on young studs. I know some people who give mares three breeding seasons, not me, huh-uh, two is tops, period, bred to the same stud. And if it's just something real funky hitting the ground.... see ya... they're gone in a hurry.

I like this topic... here, if I don't see him as a producing sire, he's snipped/snipped. And Bucks and Blues is right, if youv'e got a young'un coming up that might cross on your mares better than the stud she was bred to in the first place... that's a start.

Sort of me thinking along the lines of thinking Scamp might actually be better back on Jazz... If he's still here, that's what will happen, then the next year to Kid, and see what happens there.

Hopefully, in the Fall, I can be on the hunt again for some mares. I need five jam-up mares total, that'll sure put some babies on the ground... and I'm holding to the five... that's more than plenty. So far, I'm looking for three unless Red pulls this mess next year, she might get replaced.

Bucks&Blues

The PS comment was in general not pointed at you. Sorry if it came across that way. Ouch!