Feeding Halter Babies

What is everyone's opinion on this? special ways to feed without blowing out legs, protein levels etc?

I would really love to hear anything anyone has to offer on this subject.

I think everyone of us halter people feed something different, just from our experices.

I'm not one to add a bunch of gunk to it, I like to keep things as simple as possible. I'll tell you what I feed mine - nothing special. I feed a 14% 6% fat pellet to everybody. The babies get one scoop of that and one scoop of crimped or steam rolled oats twice a day, and a half a jigger of the loose minerals once a day - that's normal.

When any of my horses are in training, with the exception of a N/H'er, alfalfa is the only hay they get and it stays in front of them, and their feed is upped to do a three times a day feeding. And I watch them like a freaking hawk.

Now, I DO NOT work mine for only 5 minutes in a round pen or whatever. Last year with Scamp, at six months of age, which was his first show, he was already going right at 15 minutes on the golfcart out in the pasture. It's not just the feed you need, but also the work-outs. The work-outs define. If I need to add a little extra fat, I put corn oil in.

Like I said, I'm an old-fashioned kinda girl. And I also let mine have full turn-outs on Sunday, and I'm talking from morning to evening. I've done it in the round pen and the golfcart, etc. and their minds are 100% better with the golfcart and out all day on Sunday.

I feed the oats, alfalfa, probiotics, MSM, daily wormer, DAC colt grower, DAC bloom and DAC oil. They get 3 to 4lb oats twice a day and alfalfa twice a day. No grass hay as thet makes a tummy. Then the fitting. I do not have a golf cart so they get up to 8 mins on the line and only do that every other day. Then the training for show is done at the end of the work. We do the whole halter pattern and set up. Neck sweating if it needs to be done and vigerous grooming. I do paste wormer as well once a month to get the coat in show shape..

I do not use sweet feed as that can make them really hot. Do need to watch those legs and know when to push and when to back off..

Growth by Buck eye. Ive had great luck with it. See my boy, on this forum 14 1/2 hands 9 months.
https://horses.editboard.com/general-off-topic-discussions-f4/14-1-2-9-months-pally-colt-t1518.htm
Has not been worked at all. Just let play.. Needed to sweat his neck but I will let someone else do that. I sold him, got OK Money, but he was a better colt then that. Hes N/N.. Ive had them ask if hes N/H or H/H.. Oh well momma foals again in Feb.

That feed is not available around here.. I also looked it up and what I saw was it is 18%. Is that true?

thanks everyone, exactly what i was looking for.

now, when do you know when to cut back? like is blowing out a colts legs from protein levels, or from too much body weight on the small joints? What does it look like?

At this moment in my small breeding program I am not wanting to breed strictly halter horses... but more horses that can halter, and ride. But I figured to get maximum potential out of my babies, they still need to be fed exceptionally and treated like a halter horse.... correct?

I will be fitting 2 of my 07 babies for 08 shows,.... haven't started the work outs yet... plan to have them started in that late january as I wont be showing till april or may.

I think these foals are the biggest we have ever had... their daddy is producing some huge foals! Actually, I just talked to the owner of my surviving twin from 06.... she's over 14HH as a 2 yr old!! her dam was 14HH on a good day, and her sire is between 14.3-15HH.

right now what I am feeding is a mix of frisky foal (17% with extra vitamins and minerals), tiz wiz 16%, and pure gold mare and foal (with something added that i cant remember off the top of my head). They have free access to a alfalfa round, a salt block and mineral block, as well as they get added minerals and vitamins on their feed.

Now I have had to for the moment put the two smaller babies in with the bigger ones. this is temporary, however they were getting 4 big blue scoops (dont know how many lbs they hold) between the four of them once a day. That has now been brought down to 3 scoops.

The bigger weaners were getting 2 big scoops between the two twice daily, but both were getting a little chunky.

Any suggestions on changing their feeds? Are oats beneficial enough to be giving them some in your opinions?

Bluejay wrote:

That feed is not available around here.. I also looked it up and what I saw was it is 18%. Is that true?

Bag says 16% Have had not one leg problem.. Good Stuff.

I think these foals are the biggest we have ever had... their daddy is producing some huge foals! Actually, I just talked to the owner of my surviving twin from 06.... she's over 14HH as a 2 yr old!! her dam was 14HH on a good day, and her sire is between 14.3-15HH.

Are you shocked because she is 14 hand tall for a 2 year old? For a halter horse, I think, JMO here, but 14 hands is Small for a 16 month old yearling, let alone 2 year old. I would have sold her as a yearling. JMO here. Now maybe she was not halter bred, and she is just a fun horse, then it gets down to just want you want or like.

My yearlings are all about the 14hh range. Some guys come over and say how big they are. Others figure they're small. Pep is 14.2 and Gun is somewhere between 14.3-15hh. So the studs are small. And my mares? Well, Freckles is all of 14.1. Her yearling is 14hh. Born March 20th, '06. Of course, my horses are cow bred. And that makes a huge difference.
If I recall, Merikle is breeding more for horses that do "a bit of both" than just halter. So she'd likely be trying for the mid-range, rather than big.
Our market up here is Canada is a bit different than down there. We have sons of top name studs here, it's not like we have junk, but our market for horses that can show in a bit of everything at open shows is huge. Where I live, we have lots of open shows. There is even a whole week straight of them we call the milk run. So a horse that can show in most, if not all the classes, is worth it's weight in gold. We have high point awards for both individual shows as well as circuits. And we have shows that are sanctioned by a couple of different circuits, so we can collect points for lots of organizations at once.
I think Merikle is trying to help fill the demand we have for horses that can perform and stay sound, and the big demand here where I am is for horses under 15.2.

Triple J Quarter Horses wrote:

I think these foals are the biggest we have ever had... their daddy is producing some huge foals! Actually, I just talked to the owner of my surviving twin from 06.... she's over 14HH as a 2 yr old!! her dam was 14HH on a good day, and her sire is between 14.3-15HH.

Are you shocked because she is 14 hand tall for a 2 year old? For a halter horse, I think, JMO here, but 14 hands is Small for a 16 month old yearling, let alone 2 year old. I would have sold her as a yearling. JMO here. Now maybe she was not halter bred, and she is just a fun horse, then it gets down to just want you want or like.

The filly I was referring to is not bred for halter. Her dam is Lynn Melody, who is bred for cutting/reining, and my stud is bred halter/performance. Even though this filly was a twin, she would never really be big enough to win halter at breed show events, this is why i do not plan to show her full brother in halter either. They are built to cut or rein, and thats what they will do.

I sold the filly as a weanling to a girl who adores her, and the fillies b-day is in may, so not a 2 yr old yet. But I didnt think she would even make it to 14HH being a twin and all. so I am surprised.

My now yearling gelding I showed halter this year is already over 14HH, and the weaners I plan to show halter (one is 8 mos, one is 9 mos end of dec) are almost as tall as him.

I have no doubt they will be big enough.... the dam on the colt is 16.2.

reiningfan wrote:

My yearlings are all about the 14hh range. Some guys come over and say how big they are. Others figure they're small. Pep is 14.2 and Gun is somewhere between 14.3-15hh. So the studs are small. And my mares? Well, Freckles is all of 14.1. Her yearling is 14hh. Born March 20th, '06. Of course, my horses are cow bred. And that makes a huge difference.
If I recall, Merikle is breeding more for horses that do "a bit of both" than just halter. So she'd likely be trying for the mid-range, rather than big.
Our market up here is Canada is a bit different than down there. We have sons of top name studs here, it's not like we have junk, but our market for horses that can show in a bit of everything at open shows is huge. Where I live, we have lots of open shows. There is even a whole week straight of them we call the milk run. So a horse that can show in most, if not all the classes, is worth it's weight in gold. We have high point awards for both individual shows as well as circuits. And we have shows that are sanctioned by a couple of different circuits, so we can collect points for lots of organizations at once.
I think Merikle is trying to help fill the demand we have for horses that can perform and stay sound, and the big demand here where I am is for horses under 15.2.

Its like you read my mind

The cutting reining bred mare I had is no longer with us, but her foals would never make it at breed show level halter, so in regards to that, Triple J, I totally agree with you. But for my colt (I dont own the filly anymore), I just want him to be a well mannered, obedient colt for now, until he is of age where I will send him for training for cutting/reining (whichever he excells better in). If he cant preform very well, he will be the only gelding I plan to keep around forever.

However my plans with my colt and filly I currently have that will make the height cut for breed show halter, I plan to show them halter now, and Show them performance later. The colt I plan to do WP, then some HUS, actually, as many classes as I can get him going in, I plan to.

The fillies dam is a mare who can do it all, from barrel racing, to jumping, to WP, so I have the same kinda idea for her.

Quote :

At this moment in my small breeding program I am not wanting to breed strictly halter horses... but more horses that can halter, and ride. But I figured to get maximum potential out of my babies, they still need to be fed exceptionally and treated like a halter horse.... correct?

My weanlings hit 14H just before they turn a year in about Oct and Nov. I feed this way for optimal growth and not just halter. Most people do not realize how much a weanling needs to keep up with how fast they grow. My babies are eating grain and alfalfa with their mothers at two weeks old. I do not use a creep of free choice either. I put a small bucket of grain behind a board in the stall so they can get grain if Mother does not share. That is measured at about a cup and does not get re filled until it's gone. This is how I keep track of just how much they are eating. They get fed at the same time the other horses are fed in the morning and evening. The alfalfa is free choice beside Mom. You find these little spid wads all over the stall where they have chewed on it and spit it out it in the beginning at just a few days old. They do copy their Mother in every way. I had one that if mom shook her head so did baby.


Then as a yearling they almost grow over night. It does take a lot to keep up with them and if you are not feeding for that you may not get the optimal size out of the youngster. The two I have right now will be yearlings in Jan and Fed. They are both wearing 72 Big D blankets and sheets.. Very nice size yet not halter fit. Even Chad who you all know was vey sick and lost two months of growth. He is about 14.2 now and a leaner horse then the filly who is 14h and very thick..

As a yearling because of the rate they grow at you need to really keep an eye on them and push when you can and back off when you have to. When they are growing upward you will not get the width on them you might be looking for. You do need to pay attention and watch what you are feeding them. Do I have leg problems? NO.. Have I had them in the past? YES on a few. It has taken many years of breeding and feeding to find what works and does not work.

I guess it really is about what you want to see your horses turn out like when they are done growing. I see no reason to have a thin pleasure horse that looks like a TB on the track when you are breeding QH's. They can have full bodies and look like a QH with out looking like a halter horse. That is just what I like to see in mine and we all have different opinions of what we like. You got to put it in to get it out.. It just does not happen on it's own. And asking others what they do is the best way to find your way to what you want..

Thanks Blue Jay,

Is there anywhere I can find this info? when do you know when to cut back? like is blowing out a colts legs from protein levels, or from too much body weight on the small joints? What does it look like?

Since my breeding program is new, and have some breed show level quality babies, I dont have a set feeding program... Dont have a set fitting program. Basically have been going off what 7Cedars, you, and Triple J have said, and modifying it to fit what I have and can do.

I just dont want to have leg problems, but want optimum health for my babies.

If all goes well, I will be heading off for college in fall 08, doing a breeding major for now... but dont even know if they will teach me about foal feeding etc. I will get AI info, ultrasound/palpation info, husbandry (but I dont know to what extent??).

Any information you guys can offer me from your broad life experiences would be so greatly appreciated.

I have a 2 year old western Pleasure bred mare that is right at 16 hands. Everyone is saying Hunt Seat! Im saying, Hunt seat was about 40lbs ago and about 15 years ago! Hee Hee Guess sure wouldnt hurt to lose the 40 lbs, Who knows by the end of summer I might be in the market for a english saddle! She is foundation bred, all the zippo stuff and Investor stuff. when we went to pick her up she was 15 1 at the hip, started her on our feeding program and Boom! Sure kicked in her growth... Mercy.. maybe I should have feed something else!

As your baby grows you may see some open joints around the fet lock area. This is normal for a day or two. If you see this for more then a few days and the back fet locks look like they are popping back in place when they are walking for more then a few days you need to back off. When things go back to nomal resume what you were doing. They all appear to have wide open joints down there for a day or two when they go through a growth spurt. Then things settle down..
This will happen as a weaner...

You also need to watch the knees.. If they are bobbing when they are not working then you need to back off.. Now, if they have been running around they may do that a bit (minute or two) from stress. This is normal or if they are nervous.. What you do not want to see is the knee forward or legs shaking for more then just a minute. That is a sign of trouble and the alfalfa will cause this. This is just about paying attention and watching what they are doing.. The is key to getting where you want them to go with out set backs..

This is all weaner stuff.. As yearlings you would see fet locs pop forward if your diet is not balanced and correct for the horse.. They are all different and you have to treat them that way .. Some will take all you can give them. Others are touch and go.. And some will just not take it at all.. I have found that confirmation is not the whole story on these as the vitamin/mineral balance is. That is why I use the DAC colt grower and Bloom on them. I have not seen this since I started using that.

It is about calcium, phosorous and protien balance in the diet.. Many do not use this since it cost money. However, I have found it to be worth it's weight in gold and do not have to worry about all the other stuff.. Since those problems come from the feed... It really is trial and error and the horse. When you see these problems you need to re group and adjust the feed to what ever the horse will accept.

Keep in mind that alfalfa is high in calcium (bone) and phosorus (joint) and make adjustments as needed for the indavidual.. If you feed hay you will get a fat tummy and low top line..This cannot be worked off.

"Right now what I am feeding is a mix of frisky foal (17% with extra vitamins and minerals), tiz wiz 16%, and pure gold mare and foal (with something added that i cant remember off the top of my head). They have free access to a alfalfa round, a salt block and mineral block, as well as they get added minerals and vitamins on their feed. "

Personally, I think that's way too much protein. And if they've got salt and mineral blocks, why are you adding minerals to their feed again?

I also don't think you're feeding the younger ones enough. No way would I feed any of mine, mare, stud, babies, or otherwise that much protein.... but that's just my opinion.

Bluejay wrote:

As your baby grows you may see some open joints around the fet lock area. This is normal for a day or two. If you see this for more then a few days and the back fet locks look like they are popping back in place when they are walking for more then a few days you need to back off. When things go back to nomal resume what you were doing. They all appear to have wide open joints down there for a day or two when they go through a growth spurt. Then things settle down..
This will happen as a weaner...

You also need to watch the knees.. If they are bobbing when they are not working then you need to back off.. Now, if they have been running around they may do that a bit (minute or two) from stress. This is normal or if they are nervous.. What you do not want to see is the knee forward or legs shaking for more then just a minute. That is a sign of trouble and the alfalfa will cause this. This is just about paying attention and watching what they are doing.. The is key to getting where you want them to go with out set backs..

This is all weaner stuff.. As yearlings you would see fet locs pop forward if your diet is not balanced and correct for the horse.. They are all different and you have to treat them that way .. Some will take all you can give them. Others are touch and go.. And some will just not take it at all.. I have found that confirmation is not the whole story on these as the vitamin/mineral balance is. That is why I use the DAC colt grower and Bloom on them. I have not seen this since I started using that.

It is about calcium, phosorous and protien balance in the diet.. Many do not use this since it cost money. However, I have found it to be worth it's weight in gold and do not have to worry about all the other stuff.. Since those problems come from the feed... It really is trial and error and the horse. When you see these problems you need to re group and adjust the feed to what ever the horse will accept.

Keep in mind that alfalfa is high in calcium (bone) and phosorus (joint) and make adjustments as needed for the indavidual.. If you feed hay you will get a fat tummy and low top line..This cannot be worked off.

Firstly...Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! Exactly what I needed to know!

I have not seen any shaky knees, or popping fetlocks on any of them as of yet (I see them usually 3 + times a day)

What I dont understand is what you mean by "if you feed hay you will get a fat tummy and a low top line" I know low quality hay can (usually) gives a hay belly which is really hard to work off... but what do you mean?

My babies are getting top quality alfalfa hay, free choice. The two youngest and smallest are of good weights (not halter like, but good healthy weights), the filly has a nice tummy, not a fat one lol, and the colt has a bit of a hay belly that he's had pretty much since a month after being weaned. But not very big.

If you could elaborate on that bluejay it would be greatly appreciated.

7cedars wrote:

"Right now what I am feeding is a mix of frisky foal (17% with extra vitamins and minerals), tiz wiz 16%, and pure gold mare and foal (with something added that i cant remember off the top of my head). They have free access to a alfalfa round, a salt block and mineral block, as well as they get added minerals and vitamins on their feed. "

Personally, I think that's way too much protein. And if they've got salt and mineral blocks, why are you adding minerals to their feed again?

I also don't think you're feeding the younger ones enough. No way would I feed any of mine, mare, stud, babies, or otherwise that much protein.... but that's just my opinion.

Would you be able to recommend a change? what would you take out, what would you add? I Add minerals mainly to the two younger weaners, I dont think they get much time if any with the blocks because of the two others... just did not want them missing out.

The younger ones as in the younger weaners? Right now I have made another change, brought the two younger weaners in the barn so they get grain 2X per day, and get 2 scoops to themselves.

I dont know how many lbs my scoop holds... will have to look it up. But I remember the other "added" thing in the mare + foal feed I forgot before, I do believe it is selenium.... any thoughts on that?

I feed free choice hay and have never had a problem with hay bellies. My understanding is if hay is presented truly free choice you won't get hay bellies as the horses won't be forced to eat the hard to digest stems which produce the dreaded hay belly. I have seen some amazing horses fed free choice alfalfa and they looked great personally I won't do it because of the protein levels I worry about their kidney function with that much going in. I supplement with alfalfa pellets as we have blister bettles and the hay has it and it can kill horses the process of making the pellets doesn't cause that.

Make sure you know exactly how much each horse gets lbs wise our feed is weighed on the scale it is important to know exactly how much each horse eats.

Brandi, do you have a Princess Auto around there? I went and bought a little scale there. It was only about $3 and I hang it by a bale string, hang a ice cream pail of the hook, zero it out, add the oats, and VOILA, I now know how many lbs of oats I feed. A full pail of my oats weigh in at about 4lbs. I weighed oats every feeding for a few weeks. Now I can tell if I'm feeding light or heavy.
The scale goes to about 22 lbs, so I can also use it to weigh hay.

I think Bluejay was referring to hay besides alfalfa - it'll danged sure give them a hay belly. Also, need to be up on your worming for these young'uns, that'll also give them a "hay belly" appearance. Need to try to worm those young'uns once a month, or at least once every 2 months.

What I'm trying to say is, if you've got something that high protein you're feeding with free choice alfalfa, you are going to have some problems. You're going to have to pull something down, and I would pull the feed protein down, not the alfalfa. And actually, it ought to cost a lot less pulling them down, rather than going the other way.

Now, down here in Texas, if I fed the geldings and mares, pregnant or not, which would all be outside, free choice alfalfa, good Lord, those things would be butter ball fat, and of course, having free choice minerals and salt... criminey sakes. Fed the broodmares one year, when alfalfa was still cheap down here, through the winter, good Lord, those heifers had some huge babies and foaled early - course that's East Texas - not sure about Canada. I took them all off of feed during that time, and then eased them back into it, at least the mares about 60 days before they foaled - criminey those were some good looking babies!

You need to do some research, check out your local feed stores - and whatever you do, DON'T feed any sweet feed to those babies that are up!!!!

both my vet and nutrition expert say free choice hay will not cause the hay bellies so I guess agree to disagree we worm and probiotics and free choice the grass hay and have done so for years w/o hay bellies so I guess.... to me it is all about the quality of the hay

One mom from 4-H here was asking about a colt with a bit of a belly. Said how she'd heard how that meant they were wormy. I told her it also had to do with the type and quality of the hay being fed. There is a reason it's called a hay belly. They also seem to get them when the grass quality depletes. Need to eat more to get the same nutrients.

Big tummies can be caused by many things.. If the horse has a short back you will tend to get a big barrel.. Alfalfa pellets are great for putting weight up on the back where you want it on a halter horse.. I have used them and like the consitency in the protien levels on them. Which are not real high. It is very difficult to get a nice tucked up tummy on a short backed horse.. Most halter type horses do have a short back.. Some times you have to wait them out and let them grow before you get the look you want to see.

You do need to pay attention to how much protien you are serving up. I like the oats because they are only 9%, high in fat and work well with the alfalfa. I would never feed a grain that has more then 12% protien to a horse and that would be one that is working and not just lounging around.

Horses from my area that forage all day on grass do get big tummies on them. We are low in mineral value here. You can go accross state and get a much higher in mineral value in the grass. The grass is what the hay is made of around here and I only feed it to my cows. Nothing there for the horse. I do feed a really high quality orchard grass to a few of mine.. It runs about 275.00 a ton now and is higher then the alfalfa. Also, a good quality Orchard grass can have way more protien then alfalfa.. This is why it is so popular here..

You have to trial and error on your own. When you find the right mix stay with it. Be prepared to make changes if you need to. Look at a lot of horses and decide what you like to look at..

Go to some halter classes with some really nice horses and look at them. Look at where the neck ties in, the head, the hip and how it carries down the back, look at the heart girth and tummy and see how they flow together, is there a big deep V in the chest, fore arms and gackins buldging? and how do the legs look. Also, pay attention to the size of their feet.. They should be in range with the rest of the horse and not so small they look like they are tip toeing around on them. They should look like an athlet.. Find what you like and go from there..

Thank you everyone!!!! I cannot stress that enough. Your wealth of knowledge has benefited me in so many ways!


7Cedars, what protein levels do you give your babies?

Bluejay?

anyone else?

The whole reason I put them on it is after weaning, the filly got a little ribby, the colt got a little ribby and got a hay/wormy belly. after about a month of having them on this mix and monthly worming of various wormers, they looked amazing. Still do lol.

I have been looking for books specific to feeding young horses but cannot find any? I have been looking for months and months now, none have what I need. Does anyone know any good books in regards to that?

7Cedars whats the name of that halter book again? The spectacular one?

I am lowering the protein levels, but doing it slowly as to not shock them... they've never really been fed oats, so im taking it slow. I have eliminated the 16% m/f feed.

I am feeding the frisky foal because of the minerals and vitamins in it... what I dont understand is why they make a foal feed with so high of protein if a baby only needs 12-14%'s?

I have not noticed any issues with legs as of yet, fingers crossed and knocking on wood. My babies are very active, but are not on workout routine as of yet.

I am considering the thought of the alfalfa pellets as well... But would that still be too much protein? I like the extra added vitamins and minerals in the feed because I do not think the little'r ones get very much.

Denise - Made a written note to go to princess auto, THANK YOU! :0)