weaning! sell or no sell?

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SELL! SELL! You got mom and dad, let them go. you have the factory. Di have to agree that the hip is the weakest point. My own personal preference is more hip and I like my neck to come out of the chest higher. But thats just what I like.

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SELL SELL SELL A bird in hand is worth 10 in the bush. The market is bad and if you have people who want to buy sell them.. There will be more next year.. And, when you have too many you cannot give them the attention they need anyway... They become a money pit.

As far as the 3 month old goes. If they are eating good wean them. That is younger then what I would do. But, if the mare is dragin down and you want to keep her healthy, the foal is eating like a horse then do it..

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The market sure does sound different up there! Unbelievable!
I don't know though, I'm still leaning towards sell though. There is only much you can do, and a little money now could make campaigning someone easier in the future. I'd say use the money from this to get some show experience on your stud. There will always be more foals.

I need to be living there. I ain't that far away, but the market here sucks. Big time. I'd sell, like the others say, you have the factory. Take him to a show or two if you'd like and sell him if you get an offer there. More likely for them to show him if they see how well he does.

Even if the market is great you can only have so many horses. I have no idea how many you have? If all you are doing is working and taking care of them then there is no real time for them. We all need to be realistic about it. In the states we call it HORSE POOR..

You have to do what is best for you and your animals. You asked ..

Personally and from my own exerience and I have been around most likely longer then many on this forum. It is a dream that likely will change many times over before reality sits in.

I only bred a few this year. Makes no sense to just keep adding when they cannot be sold. Oh, yes I could sell them in a minute. I am not willing to let them go cheap. I put tons of time and money in them. I have a facility that cost me about a half a million. And, not so I can breed a bunch of stuff that does not pay for it.. It is a loosing battle.

I would much rather have one good horse then a field full of horses.

No hate mail. I am speaking for myself and no one else..

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14 Dang, ouch!

You hit the nail on the head Bluejay!

Sorry, been busy... hadn't read all of it yet. This may be a bit long, so bear with me.

First off, I don't know what colt we're talking about here, so I can't judge him. But you also have to keep in mind that I'm in Texas, so what I think is okay here, may be jam up up there, or vice versa...

We all have different opinions, just like Bluejay, Kay, Lynn, Kell and others, we agree on the general idea, but not specifics. We all have different ways of doing things, doesn't mean it's wrong or whatever, just different.

I'll tell you my past experiences, and then you can go from there. And you're young, so if you're anything like Trent sometimes, I get the I know, Mom, I know thingy, which tears me a new one, then if you're grown and you take the responsibilities with your decision, then it's all yours. However, some of us on here have been there/done that, and don't want to see some of you young'uns make the same mistakes we did. So with that in mind, here we go.

As you know, I used to have paints. Loved 'em, couldn't get enough of 'em, showed 'em, broke 'em out, etc. Then one day I look up, and there's 30 plus horses here, prices are plummeting (and I'll get into that in a minute), tired of the solids, just sick to death of the whole thing. So I decided to get more focused, lower the danged feed bill, etc.

I've stated this before, and I'll reiterate it! I was told a long time ago by someone who danged sure knew her business, and she was in paints, that you'd best sell them as quick as you can, because if you hold them, you'll have more money in 'em, and more than likely, they'll either go for the same price they were as a weanling, or a lot less - so I finally listened and took heed! If you have the mare and the stud, sell the babies, even maybe waiting till after futurities, but get 'em gone. If you figure out how much your feed bill is, and I mean, actually, break it down to okay, X gets this many scoops, and the bag of feed costs me X, and there's X amount of scoops in the danged bag, so it's costing me X to feed this horse every day. Then you take the hay, do the same thing. Then you figure vitamins and minerals, any other stuff, and even figure in water and electricity, on who drinks what per day. Then you get all that stuff wrote down, and get ready to throw up - I always have - and then figure what you'll have in that horse for a year. It's the same thing I do with my typing business... when I was doing all the contracts and had all those people working for me, I could tell you every single little bitty cost, and could even tell you how much a piece of paper cost that came out of that printer - I ain't kidding... That's how you make money - you break it down, see what your costs are and change things.

Now, with babies, it takes 11 months to get the suckers here, so you've already fed the mare for that time, you can't do a blasted thing with that baby till it's 3 months old or older, so add that time in now, and then all the time and expense of getting it to whatever you want to show in.

I figure at least every horse costs me around $1,500 per year, with farrier work, etc. And I'm super big on farrier work! Also, this is not even counting in the danged vet. Mares cost more if you're ultrasounding, blah, blah. Babies cost more because they should actually be getting more food than the grown horses. Ones that are being fit, depending on what discipline, can sometimes eat a hole in your pocketbook... so you have to figure each thing. And lordy, if you have to wait till they're 2 to do anything with 'em and add training on top of that - okay, that part sort of makes me sick to my stomach....This is called responsible ownership and knowing where your money is going. And I challenge you to break it down, figure out how much each horse has cost you and what you now have in them... that'll blow your freaking mind.

Also, what I used to buy ten years ago are pukes in my opinion now, at least some of 'em - some of 'em I kick my tail every day thinking I sold 'em... as you get older, more experienced, your taste changes, you get better and better as far as what discipline you're in, you want better horses. I totally understand now, the old saying... a good 'un takes just as much to feed a bad 'un or mediocre one, whichever you prefer. It's better to have 2 great mares, than 10 mediocre ones. First off, feed bill wise and what you'll get for the babies. Mares are the name of the game - not the blasted studs!

So what I did was, I took out the trash - literally. Now, granted they weren't trash, but you know what I mean... they weren't getting me to where I wanted to be - and that's straight halter, and sure some other stuff maybe, but halter was what I liked doing. Doesn't mean the suckers can't ride - they can, but that's not the point. I'm happy on the ground.

This is the way I figure it, and this is just me. If I can get a weanling sold for $2,500, I've made some profit, not much, but enough for me not to throw my hands up and say the hell with this crap. If I wait and hold that weanling till their yearling and I sell it for $2,500, I'm SOL - I may have broke even... then you start putting show fees on top of everything, and that's another expense. When I price hroses, I price them as what I would pay for them, and everybody probably knows I'm a cheapie... HA! I'll pay more for a gosh-darned jam-up broodmare than I will anything, but I'm always still on the hunt for a heck of a deal - Jazz for case in point.

Now, if I've got a baby that I want to see what will happen, then I might hold 'em back; however, I still have a price in mind, and if somebody just has to have 'em, then they're gone, real quick! I take a chance on doing that, I know it, and so does everybody else when they make this decision. It's exactly what I'm doing with Scamp - I want to see, and I'm taking chances doing it. And I don't care what kind of a fit Rick and Dillon throws, he'll be gone if the price is right.

One thing you have to remember, there's tons and tons of things these horses will do to try and commit suicide. Best get 'em sold as quick as you can, and get that out of the kitty, so to speak.

But that is straight up what the breeding business is, if you want to be successful. You try and strive for the best mares around you, best babies, best stud, etc.... that's what we all strive for. When you go in to a futurity and your babies consistently win, then you can say, okay, my program works... and then you get them sold for what you think they're worth, then once again, you can say your program works... I ain't there yet, still striving for that, but it's a thing we all should strive for. This year will be the tell tale (hiney scrunched here - HA!)

If on the other hand, a person just wants to show, have fun, then fine, they don't need to be in the breeding business, they just need to go and have fun, and that's called a hobby. The breeding business, however, is a whole other ballgame, and sometimes you've got to make some real hard choices. I did, it broke my heart, but I still did it.

And now I'll explain to you where I'm heading... jeesh, this is super long - sorry! I seriously don't care if I ever breed an outside mare again - I swear! Just too much crap to deal with. I'm fixing to get mine ready for shows, and I'm fixing to hit it hard... and I'm talking hard. I'll know within the first 3 shows, so long as I do my homework on the judges, if theyr'e going to make it. If they do, great; if they don't, then I'll have to make a judgment call and go from there. When I enter the futurities this year, if once again, I've done my homework, my babies look the best they can be, if we do well, then fine, continue with the same mares; if not, then we're fixing to change something... everything I have here is for sale, including Kid - nobody would be stupid enough to pay the price, because there's too much emotion stuck with the A-hole, but they're all for sale.

So if you need to do like I did, and get rid of 5 mediocres to buy one jam-up, then so be it; if it takes getting rid of 10 mediocres to get one jam-up, then so be it. Point is, you need to get focused on what you're doing, where you're going, and trust me, I've changed that at least 3 or 4 times... HA!... and then do the hell hath no fury. Bite the bullet, do what it takes to succeed. And this is also a life lesson! Cut your losses, get focused, get a plan, be aggressive, and read every freaking thing you can get your hands on, and watch everything you can to see what works and what doesn't work... it's called being in business. You should always strive to be the best in whatever business you're in.

And if you mess up, well, you just flat messed up - we all have! Learn from your mistakes and go on.

Is that enough for ya... HA! And if you ever want to come down here to Texas and stay with me for a week, you come on down!!! I'll be more than happy to bend your ear, help get you focused, show you some things, take you to some sales and some shows and show you some stuff... the offer's always there. Course so is a hindend chewing, maybe, but if you ask, I'm gonna tell ya! HA! And don't think I haven't gotten my hindend chewed out .... oooweee! I'll even introduce you to the lady who used to do it... HA! I have some pics of when I first started showing, and I think, oh, GAWD HELP ME! HA! If I knew then what I know now... dang!

So... your call...be responsible, think it through, write things down, gain tons of knowledge and let 'er rip.

Wow, 7Cedars, that was good!! You almost have me convinced to go out and sell everything I own and start over LOL!!

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Something else I should've probably added in there...even though I've given the weanling gelding to Amber, sorta... he's still for sale, and he'll get gone one way or another before the next one comes. The filly, Scamp's full sister is also for sale. In order to keep Scamp here, I need to sell the others.

I figure if everything goes like it's supposed to go, course Cool's already put a kink in that, but by the end of futurities, I should have all the babies gone, and the only thing I should have left is a stud and bred mares - but like I said, Cool's already put a kink in that. What'd I'd like to do is sell the babies soon after they're 3 months old, but we'll see...

Maybe this late Fall or early February, I can go on the hunt again for another jam-up mare, but we'll see... I want five super jam-up mares and that's it, that's where I'm stopping. Then I'm going to go and buy some cows.. HA!

Well 7C, I scanned again. The things you said are so true and really worth mentioning. I agree 100%..

We do change our minds and directions frequently as we go. I can remember when I started and I am still changing gears.. The most I had was 14 and they just about killed me finacially. Not to mention cleaning stalls. OUCH. My horses all have a fresh clean stalls and no one is out in the eliments. If you are dieing you crawl out and clean that barn. Never onece has a stall not been cleaned daily. I even did it with a broken arm and one handed.

No horse goes without regular ferrier work. I mean every 6 weeks. There is twice a day graining, all the addatives and daily wormer. Plus alfalfa even on turn out days. We are talking about a ton of oats a month and 25 tons of alfalfa a year.

We track all the feed, vet and everything we spend on them for taxes. We have not gone under $18,000.00 a year since we started.

Now, keep in mind, I still have 10 of them.. The worst part of is who do you keep and who do you sell? I love them all.

A true breeder is breeding to sell and make a profit. So, your comment on breeding or showing is true. And, there are tons of them out there winning. That does not feed the farm. And many are still worthless if no one wants to pay a fair price for them. Watch the world sale if you do not believe me. I have and could not believe it my self sitting there watching. I was shocked.

It really boils down to what you really want to do. And, deciding that and doing it. You have to do what is best for you and your animals.

I too like to raise the ones I want to keep. I do not go to auctions and I do not take my horses to them either. I would give them away first.. I will not even go in to how I feel about that..

For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would be booking a mare for breeding at this time of year That makes no sense to me and personally the season shuts down in June. Breeding to just be breeding is part of why there are so many unwanted horses and the market is so flooded.

And Merikle, if your herd is what you want then keep them all and go for it. It really is about what we want for ourselves and what we can handle fiancially with keeping them all healthy and protected.

There are too many other things in this life I want to do rather then just live by the day and spend every dime I have on horses or anything else for that matter. Let me see now How many cruises could I take for the money I spend on my horses? How much do I really get back out of them? I can honestly say nothing since I am so busy working and caring for them I do not have time for life or anything else.. We live and we learn. Just the way life is. Thank goodness I am gettin older..

You know, Bluejay, you bring up a very important point. Rick goes down south or something and goes to a guy's house that he works with... comes back and says, GAWD, babe, you ought to see their house, how much money they have, just everything... why can't we do that. I said, step out on that porch and tell me what you see. DUH!

When I had all those horses, I betcha... I think I've blocked it out, so I can't specifically remember, but figure at least $1,000 a month, that's probably real, real low, that's 12 grand... yep, Bluejay, we could've had some swanky gosh-danged cruises and heck, we could've taken a trip to England, Scotland, Ireland and Italy, exactly where we want to go.. but nope, I'm here - maybe one of these days... maybe! HA! I just hope when and if I get to go, I can still walk and not be in a wheelchair... HA!

Course, I also know me and Rick can't live "in town"... just flat no way. We've already been that route and we were both miserable. I don't see it changing either, if anything, I see more land being added to what we've already got as the boys grow older, especially Trent... He's done marked his spot where his "trailer" will be, and he's got some big plans. But that's why we bought this place in the first place, was to offer our kids something that we didn't have growing up. Big enough to do what you really want to do.

Course if I had my druthers, we'd be stuck up in Montana somewhere in tin-buck-two on about a thousand acres, and the boys would've been home-schooled, Lordy help me, and I wouldn't see town but for once a month... now that's just flat living to me! HA!

But with all this... Rick and I have to work our blooming butts off - ain't no 8-hour mess going on here, huh-uh, no way. DANGIT!

I am well aware of what horses cost. My mom knows the ins and outs of owning a business, and I'm learning as I go. I can't expect to understand every aspect of it as an almost 18 yr old, but im learning.

Horses are already a woven part of my life, yes its bloody expensive, yes its tiring, but I love what I do, and to me, thats all that matters.

Like I tell everyone, yes I will be broke, but atleast I will be happy and broke. Horses are a luxury, period. And personally, I will live in a shack with no power on my parents land before I sell all my horses. I love what I do, I love my horses, and for me, there is no life without horses.

I am planning to take a seperate trades course here some time, just in case.... but Alberta is a very very rich province right now, and I could quit my job today and have another better paying job by tomorrow.

I have a list of horses I want gone by fall, and I guarantee you they will be gone, and for good prices. I dont sell anything cheap. They go for good prices, and to good homes ONLY.

This is the direction in my life I am going, plain and simple, and as much as many people like to reiterate how expensive it is, and time consuming etc etc.... I'm already living it, I have for almost the past decade, Paying for them with MY money, and using MY time, I am well aware, and am going to continue with this direction in life.

Money doesnt buy happiness. But I will continue on in my pursuit for happiness.

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OK one thing and then Im out of it.... I think you miss the point some times though for example hay isn't ever free- the cost of the land (for whoever makes the land payment), the cost of gas to run the tractor,the cost of twine or baling wire everything counts, esp the cost of time of everyone involved not just you but your parents etc... the amount each bale would cost if it was sold it is how much each bale is costing you to keep it so it is never free. Just my opinion and Im sticking too IT and trust me I understand where you are and wanting to get somewhere big sometimes you just have to take baby steps and understand you can't do it all overnight it does take time. If you can't find the mares you want in Canada look in the states and spend the $$ you have on the shipping you can find nice very nice horses for very little money now just have to be willing to pay the money for shipping. You will have to spend it somewhere spend it there and get something you will be proud to have that will be worth having.
Canada is obviously too cold for me!!!!

You will have to spend it somewhere spend it there and get something you will be proud to have that will be worth having.


In total agreement!

Merikle Waters IF you dont want advise why are you asking for it? you see, it seems when someone here gives you their opion, you take it to heart and get upset.

You asked about selling, we are, or most of us are in the same boat, raising foals. We, some of us doing this for more years then you are alive, have plenty of wet saddle blankets, This is what we are saying if you have a hot buyer, sell. Because they cool down fast. Why is it, and Im sure many of this has had it happen, BOY IF YOU EVER DECIDE TO SELL HIM, LET ME KNOW. Ok, so you do decide to sell him, Call them and all the sudden they dont need him. There are so many like that. Im Done now. Im out of here.

We sold a little colt we LOVED as a weanling, a downright smashing little dude!!! We made money on him though and we think he went to a good home. If I had it to do over again - I'd sell him again...

We weren't having to pay for feed, hay or board...however all of that was considered to be Garrett's "bonus" so we kinda did pay for it...esp since the bonuses around here are CASH (in an envelope). We loved him while we had him and then we sold him and now someone else gets to love him! I've gotta say - I'm a SELLER...

If we all did things the same way we would have nothing to talk about. And, I have friends in Canada who are serious breeders and do not and would not breed a mare this time of year.

There is nothing wrong with foaling out mares in the nice green pastures in the spring time. That is totally natural.. And, if you are having winter babies you need the facility to care for them. However, the hot summer day can be very hard for a foal. Even the wild horses have more sense then that..

Merikle, this is not about you.. You need to just slow down and not think it is. Eveyone on here is talking about their experience and sharing it with you. And Lynn is totally right when she says it is not free.. TOTALLY RIGHT ON... Nothing is free in this life. And, someday when you grow up and have a family of your own and life gets busy as it will, you will understand what we are saying here..

The last thing I am saying on this thread, only because you are not taking the advise you asked for and think you already have it all figured out is, I can assure you that EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE of us on here love our families, horses and other pets.

I know I dont have it all figured out, or else I wouldnt say anything.

I wanted outside opinions and I got them, glad I asked, it made me think...

But some of the advice comes across more as discouragement rather than advice. Its kind of more on the border of "dont do it", than if it were me...... dot dot dot. Thats all I was trying to say.

I am not going to take all of everyones advice.... who in the horse world (or anyone for that matter) gets told how to do something and does exactly that? I want advice, not to be told how to run my program and business.

I think because I am younger than most members here, I get told how to do things, rather than offered suggestions. If an older member were to ask the same question, I know it would be worded differently to come across as suggestions rather than directions.

Like everyone always says on here, same goes for me, its like picking fruit, I pick what I like and works for me, Im not neccesarily going to like or be able to work with what someone else likes and can work with.

I did take everyones advice, but what I want in my heart and what works for me takes play in that.... even stated that in a prior post.... I am going to show him with a price on his head.

I had an offer for $1000.00 from a little girl, to be completely honest, I said no. now if I had an offer for even double than that, I would take it.

I have no problem letting go of my foals, yes I love them, but you can't keep them all or its not a business, its a petting zoo.

Does anyone get what I am saying? Or is everyone taking it as me not listening? Believe me, I am listening, may not agree with it all but I am here with open ears.

I don't think people mean what they say to you in a neg way just sometimes it seems every time you ask a question you already have a response prepared and it seems you really didn't want our opinion anyways. Does that make sense? Like why did you bother asking when you had a plan and were going to do what you had originally planned no matter what anyone said anyways so why bother expressing our opinion when you had everything figured out in your head already.....

It is frustrating to be asked a question and then have someone argue over your answer-(which is the way it comes across in these posts) if you didn't want the opinion you shouldn't have asked. I know this is the way of youth and I have definately been there done that and am probably guilty of it to this day I just have a bit more experience to build on and a hubby to keep me grounded. I also have a lot more people that I listen to before I make important decisions and a lot of bills to pay.

You are a smart girl and with some direction and focus you could make something of yourself in horses- apprentice with some high quality trainers so you have some credientials to your name (you need credientials), study bloodlines and find a direction then get a mare or 2 that will blow away the people of Alberta buy a SBP or 2 people will almost give them away in the states I could find you a dozen high quality mares that with shipping would cost you less than 5k and would be amazing animals with really nice bloodlines just decide what it is you want those bloodlines to be . I think you would find most of us here would be more than willing to help you find what you are looking for that is what I mean by focus.

Merikle,
I honestly don't think anyone here was trying to be negative at all, they're all offering sound advice that comes from YEARS of experience. Now I'm 18, I take their advice like gold, and I've never gone a day in my life without horses. From the day I was born, it's what I've been emersed in. I know someone said this, but I'm going to really stress this to you... EVERYTHING COST MONEY. I recently started giving outside lessons, and my parent's have been struggling to feed the horses (we feed a lot of grain / bag feeds, and some of them cost 15+ a bag.) so now, I pay for feed. From one client in particular, I make $360.00 a month, this doesn't even cover my whole feed bill. When you add a land payment, barn payment, electricty, horse trailer loan, truck payment, and all of that jazz that does go along with horses (not to mention vet care, farrier service, dental care) and all of the other things that it takes to take care of them PROPERLY, it really adds up, I don't care even if you DO grow your own hay. Diesel fuel is expensive, the tractor you need to mow it is expensive. When you are fully supporting your horses, I have a feeling you may feel differently about how and when you sale things, and how many horses is going to be your max limit. Right now, I have nine of my own, and one boarded, and let me tell you, to clean stalls every day, feed, water if they don't have an automatic, groom 2x a day, AND fit / ride the horses that need it, IT IS A FULL TIME JOB. What everyone is trying to stress to you is that the longer you have a horse on your property, the more money it cost you and the less you make, plain and simple. Unless of course, you have performance horses, of which you keep until two, put in training, and then sell, but, you really need them to go to the best of the best, and that costs money. I also know Lynn mentioned you need to do some apprentice work, and that is beyond true, I would not be 1/2 as successful as I am if I just jumped right into it. I worked my butt of cleaning stalls and working for other people to finally be able to have "paid my dues" Every major name you know started of the same way. It's just not as simple as one day saying, "I am going to breed and train horses for a living." You have to gain years and years of experience by watching other people, talking to them, immitating them, picking their brains, it's the only way you're really going to LEARN anything, because quite honestly, a book will only tell you so much and it means nothing compared to other people's experience. Heck, I used to be the same way "I'll just find out myself, I can do it on my own and I don't need anyone's help along the way." But let me tell you hon, I fell flat on my behind...