Heads-up on ulcers

Thought I'd post this. TripleJ called me last night and a friend of hers had a stud have a real bad case of them, and died last night with complications.

Vets are saying, they're seeing a lot of that in show horses, so watch 'em like a hawk. Signs are stretching their neck out and not wanting to eat. Bad cases will look almost like colic.

I don't know what the heck is going on here, but this weather must be playing total havoc with the horses... anywhere from breeding to getting sick to weird stuff coming up that vets are having the bugger diagnosing.

I,m wondering about that in our Arab mare. She usd to do that sticking the neck thing out alot and refusing to eat. Sometimes she would act very uncomfortable when you would ride her stopping and turning towards her flanks and twice when we've brought her up to the barn she dropped right in her stall and started rolling WITH the saddle on! I thought she was mildlly colicking but she would always get over it. She hasn't been doing it much lately though most of this was last year. Can they get over ulcers on their own? Shhe was never really a serious show horse but she has always been a little on the nervous side. This year her temperament has calmed too though . She seems more relaxed in general.

I have no idea whether they can get over it themselves or not...The vet gave me Cimetidine tablets for Scamp. If you'll remember, last year, him and the filly both acted like they were colicking, then all of a sudden, high temperature with Scamp, and that's what brought on his ulcers. Got over that, and then got them again with the snots a month or so ago.

Scamp's not stressed, not up in the stall all day, etc... so it's not that. I think with Scamp, it's one of those things when he gets sick, he's going to get ulcers... something I'll constantly have to watch for. I know all his bloodwork came back super okay, no levels out of whack. He's off the medicine now, and he's eating good, but something is setting this off, and I don't know if it's when he gets sick or what... the big wuss!

I've been told by many, many vets that most show horses have a bit of ulcers, just because of the stuff they go through, but still, ya know......I think a lot of it is this stupid weather!

thats why I like to feed free choice prairie hay it helps to have something in their stomaches to keep them buffered... alfalfa is high in protein and makes for a higher risk situation

We do feed a pretty high alfalfa mix, maybe that's part of her trouble. I always thought maybe she was suffering from mild choke when she would stick her neck out and act distressed like that. She has a rather large dent on her neck that the vet says she maybe could have got from running with pretty good force into a fence or something. I always wondered if maybe that dent was slowing down the passage of her food at times and that is why she would stick her neck out. None of her symptoms ever progresssed very far, no fever or snotty nose or anything so we've always taken a wait and see approach. I'm going to do more reading on ulcers though, that could have something to do with it . Oh well, taking care of horses is an endless job!!

Stockman, your vet definitely has a point with that. Had a weanling filly get kicked in the neck, scar tissue went to the inside inside her esphoagus... when we weaned her, she started losing weight like all get out, the vet couldn't even get the scope down to check her. It had closed up tinier than his little finger... so you know what we had to do, ARGH! I hate doing that... but yeah, that could definitely be a sign of what's going on with yours.

I've changed up my feeding program a bit on the horses that are in the barn... Jazz needed to lose weight, and then the deal with Scamp... otuside horses have tons of grass at this point, so they're good to go.

Lynn M. wrote:

thats why I like to feed free choice prairie hay it helps to have something in their stomaches to keep them buffered... alfalfa is high in protein and makes for a higher risk situation

The Magnesium and Calcium in alfalfa acts as an antacid to prevent ulcers/gastritis; the protien will help them heal. Alfalfa is a "wonder hay" becuase it can prevent impactions also, LOL!

We routinely do a round of ulcer treatment for my horses under stress twice a year. My 2yo in training is getting treated right now for prevention of any problems "An ounce of prevention...."

I can appreciate what you are saying there CantJog but most people feeding alfalfa dont feed anything else with it so the horses only get a couple of flakes of hay a day... with their grazing style system eating only 2 times a day you are just setting them up for problems with having an empty stomach more than they should.... if you can find a way to feed it free choice or feed it with another hay where they are getting something 4xs a day in a more natural way for a horse to eat then I would totally agree with it... when we lived in CA we fed an alfalfa timothy mix and our horses did really well on it and we fed 3 xs a day and they had turn out on pasture for a couple of hours as well in the evenings.. boy if we didn't cut the hay though their urine would get so strong from the protein.... guess everyone sees it differently Ive heard the high protein is just asking for stomach problems... it sure is hard on the kidneys

Very interesting topic. The hay verses alfalfa, verses pasture, verses grass hay.. Well, we all know that horses forage 24 hours a day.. I think what really matters is what we do with them. I have seen it every way.. The 3 times a day feeding is the best for a horse that is stalled..

My friends go out and feed alfalfa first. Then they feed the grain later, then alfalfa again. They do this because they believe if you give time for the grain to get through that colmplicated digestive system the horse has they will use the grain. And, the hay will not push it out.. I thought that was very interesting and seemed to make sense if you have the time to run back and forth to the barn to do this. Plus, all their horses look good.. So, that works for them.

My thoughts are if it is not broke don't fix it.. As far as the ulcers go, I find this happens when we use other things such as medication on a horse.. You can buy generic Zantax to help with that.. It really agrivates me when the vet admits that the medication could cause ulcers and does not recomend anything to prevent it.. I guess this means when the other problems arrise they can charge you to treat that too.

One of our fillies had ulcers and Garrett tried just about every kind of ulcer guard stuff...

Keep in mind - this filly was in race training...
She got fed 3 times a day (on a very very regular schedule), free choice grass hay, 14% feed, nothing too exciting or different...when we had her on alfalfa she would tie up so that got taken out of her diet...


Finally we started giving her baking soda and water mixed in a big old syringe twice a day and she did great!


She was just a different kiddo all the way around!

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers Lynn, but you received incorrect information, and wanted to clarify this. With adaquate hydration, the slight increase in protien content is not hard on kidneys.

http://alfalfa.ucdavis.edu/Symposium/1998/Evaluating%20Hay%20for%20Horses.htm

"Myths and Realities" section is good reading. Assuming that UC Davis is a reliable source There are also MANY great research articles involving alfafa and the stomach pH in horses on the 'net.

As horses are grazing animals, I am sure that everyone can agree that constant roughage is best. Sometimes owners have to work with what they have. If they cannot, for whatever reason, do "free choice" roughage they should provide the best they can. Hay to hay comparison, 1 flake (7lb) of alfalfa is nutritionally better for the horse than 1 flake (4lb) of a grass hay.

I understand where you are coming from with your post, I hope you can see the same with mine

Personally, I think there's a ton of dummies out there that don't get that you have to have... what is it, 2 to 4 pounds the amount of hay versus grain... me, my horses have some type of hay or grass in front of them at all times, period! They're supposed to eat grass or whatever all the time, so when you take that away from them, then you're asking for big time trouble, or at least in my opinion.

I know I've never had a case with ulcers before, like I have with Scamp, and I've shown and shown, and raised horses for a long time now... which is what I don't get... most folks as soon as something happens to a horse gives them bute... well, that causes ulcers, if you give it too much for a long extended period of time...And the only time Scamp's had bute and banamine is when I thought he was colicking... stupid me! Lesson well learned!

And, Kidd, thanks for the heads-up on the baking soda and water...so simple, it's mind-blowing, ya know! GAWD!

I understand what you are saying CantJog and don't worry it takes a whole lot more to ruffle my feathers I love discussing feeds and yes for a flake of alfalfa vs a flake of grass hay it is nutritional better feed if you are only going to feed a flake of hay- but my point is horses shouldn't just have a just a flake and w/alfalfa that is the problem to have the apropriate amount of hay to consume on a daily basis you do end up w/ too much protein vs grass hay which they can consume all day long because it isnt so strong in protein and $ value grass hay can be fed free choice. I would never put a round bale of alfalfa in front of my horses but they have a round bale of grass hay in front of them if they arent out in pasture... that is all Im saying not arguing your point I think we are basically on the same page just different proportions... If you fed alfalfa free choice you would get too much protein and other things. I would love to have alfalfa here to be able to throw a flake to my horses a couple times a day for supplement when the stud comes home he always looks so good and I know he is on it but with the blister beatles I just won't risk it... I have fed some alfalfa pellets in the past to my hunter who wouldn't keep weight w/o it in addition to everything else sometimes feeding is such a concoction of different things. Also walk through the world show barn and you can smell the amonia from the urine of the horses it burns your eyes and lungs there is no way that is good for an animal... I would love to see the UA's on half of those horses...

PURE alfalfa-it sure is hard on the kidneys. True, any vet will tell you this. It is high in Protein. If fed over an extened period of time.

Yes, walk threw a TB Race track barn, and they will have Big Bags hanging up full of either Timothy, or Alfalfa / Grass mix. They hang outside the stall, where the horses reach over there doors to reach the bags. It entertains them. These bags are Full at all times. Gives them something to do is one of the reasons. Crunch and Munch.

Flake of alfalfa vs a flake of grass hay it is nutritional better feed if you are only going to feed a flake of hay- This is true. It just is. Feeding Broodmares, Foals growing horses are going to get more use out of Alfalfa then Grass. You can raise your protien level for these horses and drop down on the levels in your feed. Just watch your levels. Yep, I will keep my babies and Broodmares on it about 90 days before they foal, while nursing, If I have a mare that Im going to breed, and its winter, she goes on it. My mares get a mix after foaling, A good let me stress Good Grass hay is added in. My stallion now that he is not being shown, gets Timothy. As well as my other out side horses when the pasture is gone.

But tucked up Halter horses and Pleasure horses, to get the top line and the tucked look, can not be on full hay. hard to keep them on pasture as well to avoid the dumpy look. Grass hay is harder to work off then a Leafy hay.

The Stallion was 14. He had points in AQHA/PHBA. He was in breeding season, winding down. He was taken to Lexington, KY to one of the leading equine vets in Kentucky. Works on the MONEY horses. He told the owner that he had seen more Ulcers this year then he could remember. It was in show horses mainly, Including barrel horses. Hes not sure what is going on. This horse was on a Grass/ alfalfa mix. He was on Safe Choice feed. Nothing fancy. He lasted about 2 weeks, Heavy Meds. His stomach blew out from one of the Ulcers eating threw it. He Screamed, went side ways, Went down, got back up, went down again went into shock and was gone. I was on my way to give shots in the vein, I was going to pump him full of Rompem and banimine until the vet got there to up him down. I was 20 mins away the vet was on another call. He died before either of us could get there. The owner didn't know how to give the shots in the vein. He had been a family member for a long time. The vet in lexington thinks it is stress related.

Boy, that whole deal was just super bad! Did they think the stress was from breeding season or what, Kay? Kind of makes you want to overdose on the Tagemet to the danged studs during breeding season! ARGH! I know when Kid first starts breeding season, he'll pick at his feed for about a couple of weeks once he gets all the hoohah out of him, but he eats his hay good, so that's what matters, I guess...

It's so weird... was reading a magazine last night, and big article on ulcers, kind of even opened my eyes a bit. I'll have to type it in, but I'm going to wait till I'm more awake here... then get an e-mail and here's info that they have on ulcers. Seems the biggest problem is the horses not getting enough forage, hay, etc.









Gastric Ulcers: Management Key to Prevention

by: Mark Ullerich, South Dakota State University Extension

May 24 2007 Article # 9664

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During the past 15 years, the prevailing view on horsemanship has promoted working with horses and decreasing handling stress. Tips on imprinting foals and improving communication between horses and humans have been abundant in publications that target equine enthusiasts.
Interestingly enough, the prevalence of gastric ulcers has been reported from 25-50% in foals and 60-90% in adult horses, depending on age and level of performance. This brings up the question of whether the incidence of gastric ulcers is increasing, or we are now better at diagnosing this ailment.
Equally important, provided these numbers are accurate, how do proactive horse owners effectively treat and prevent gastric ulcers? The reality is that gastric ulcers are a man-made disease, and the majority of horses with gastric ulcers do not show outward symptoms. Oftentimes poor appetite, decreased performance, and a poor hair coat are subtle symptoms that can be attributed to other causes, while more severe cases manifest themselves as colic.
Definitive diagnosis involves placing an endoscope into the stomach and evaluating its surface. Gastric ulcers arise from the erosion of the lining of the stomach due to prolonged exposure to the normal acid in the stomach. Because the design of the horses' digestive system favors continuous intake, the horse's stomach is relatively small (8-12 quart capacity) and continually secretes acid. Attempting to confine horses, adapt them to an 8-5 schedule, and turn them into meal feeders might promote a stomach environment that has prolonged periods when the stomach remains empty. Acid accumulates, and not only is there is not any feed present to neutralize the acid, the buffering capabilities of saliva are also not effectively used.
Unlike the Pavlov's dog theory, where salivation is a conditioned response, horses need mechanical stimulation--that is, chewing--to stimulate salivation. Vices such as wood chewing and cribbing that are exaggerated in horses that are idle, stalled, or managed in confinement might just be a symptom of gastric discomfort. Environmental and physical stresses also increase the likelihood of ulcers.
Transportation, commingling, and training oftentimes interrupt the eating behavior of horses, and intense exercise might depress the emptying function and alter the gastric blood flow, thus contributing to the problem. Furthermore, anti-inflammatory medications such as phenylbutazone (bute) and the pain reliever banamine have been implicated in making the stomach more susceptible to ulcers.
In light of all this, treatment should be aimed at removing the predisposing factors and manage acid production. If you have a horse in a training program, one that is prone to be nervous, or one that is hauled extensively, and if it is exhibiting the previously stated symptoms, you need to take a hard look at what can be done to alleviate the physical and emotional stress while managing acid production. The simplest way is allowing free-choice access to long stem forages or multiple meals per day. This stimulates saliva production, which is nature's best antacid.
Evaluating the dietary energy needs of your horses and making appropriate changes in the form of energy (starch vs. fat) may benefit some horses as well. Horses also find strength in numbers so providing social stimulation will go a long way in limiting stressful situations.
Medical treatment is advised if other options have been exhausted, as there are products available that are designed to decrease the amount of acid the body produces. If you are administering anti-inflammatory or pain medication to horses that are subject to high levels of stress, proactive ulcer prevention might be warranted. Consult your veterinarian about treatment protocols.
The more we can complement the natural digestive characteristics of horses, the better off we will be in the long run. The natural tendency is to kill our horses with kindness and this oftentimes creates unintended stress that ultimately is avoidable, provided we take into account the digestive capabilities that horses possess.

60-90% percent of adult horses seems high but the article made sense. I think ulcers are probably more prevalent in show horses because of stress and also because the live a very regimented life with lots of grain and only two meals a day with littel or no turnout. That's interesting about saliva production being necessary for digestion. I bet 100% of cribbers and wood chewers show signs of ulcers.
I'm wondering if all this new research on ulcers is funded mainly by the drug companies selling those outrageously priced ulcer medications though. Those are priced through the roof.
I imagine incidence of ulcers goes up in the winter when horses are unable to graze as much. Interesting article.

Okay, here's the other article, which I thought was very, very informative! I get it now! And to tell you the truth, it's probably my fault that Scamp got the ulcers, because I thought he was colicking! I swear, I swear!

This is from The Horsepower magazine, June '07 - just got it yesterday - have no idea where this one came from, but grabbed it before Rick took it off to the bathroom for his reading material... HA!

Equine Gastric Ulcer Syndrome, a new look into the equine stomach, by Dr. Jessica Young.

Blah, blah, blah, blah - get to the main part here...now don't anyone yeyaw about the spelling, I'm not used to looking at something and typing it from there!

"There are many factors involved in the development of EGUS. Stress, exercise, diet, illness, excessive NSAID use (bute and banamine) and transport are jsut a few factors that can lead to alterations in the structure of the stomach wall that allow gastric acids and enzymes to damage the stomach lining.
Gastric ulcers are most commonly found in horses that are being used intensively but clinical problems with ulcers have been found in all types of horses. Diet and exercise are two of the biggest factors leading to the development of gastric ulcers. Contraction of abdominal muscles during exercise decreases the size of the stomach and pushes acidic contents into the upper, unprotected portion of the stomach where ulcers are likely to develop.
Diet is another very large factor in the development of ulcers. The ingestion of carbohydrate-rich diets (concentrates, sweet feed, etc.) leads to the production of acidic by-products that can cause damage to the stomach lining and lead to the ofrmation of gastirc ulcers. In general, horses are designed as grazing animals and will graze approximately 18-hours a day, so their digestive system is set-up to continually secrete digestive acids and enzymes, even into an empty stomach. Horses that are fed "meals" are still continually secreting acids into their stomach even though there is no feed present to soak up the acids and prevent them from coming into continual contact with the wall of the stomach. Pasture grazing or free-choice grass hay feeding prevents the accumulation of acid in an empty stomach.
Horses with gastric ulcers can show a variety of clinical signs. Sometimes they can be very vague and non-specific. They include:
1) Colic, especially low-grade and recurring (What Scamp had)
2) Poor appetite, picky-eaters, or reluctance to finish grain.
3) Poor hair coat.
4) Weight loss.
5) Poor performance, behavioral problems, decreased endurance.
Unfortunately, there is no consistent relationship between the severity of gastric ulcers and clinical signs. Teh most reliable method of diagnosis is through imaging the stomach after the hose has been fasted for 24-hours with a video endoscope and correlating the findings with clinical signs...

See next post.

Now, the next two paragraphs really caught my eye... and I thought, uh-huh, yep... GAWD!

"The main premise behind treating gastric ulcers is decreasing stomach acidity with acid-inhibiting drugs. These include histamine-blocking drugs that decrease the stimulus for acid secretion, anti-acids, and acid pump inhibitors (omperazole). Omperazole has been found to be the most effective in the treatemtn of ulcers and horses can be ridden and trained during treatment and still heal.
Prevention can be very challenging but is the key to keeping ulcers at bay. Some horses seem more susceptibe to developing ulcers than others. Feeding management needs to be modified to promote more continuous roughage consumption and less grain feeding. Research has shown that alfalfa hay is very beneficial in helping to prevent gastric ulcers because it is high in calcium and proteins that naturally buffer acid in the stomach. Continuous consumption of feed through pasture turn-out is ideal and much better than meal feeding. Since pasture turn-out is not always available or realistic for some horses, feeding predominantly ALFALFA HAY MORNING AND NIGHT WITH FREE-CHOICE GRASS HAY THROUGH THE DAY IS ONE MANAGEMENT ROUTE TO TAKE. CORN OIL IS ANOTHER SUPPLEMENT THAT CAN BE ADDED TO THE FEED BECAUSE IT HELPS STIMULATE THE PRODUCTION OF HORMONES THAT NATURALLY INCREASE BLOOD FLOW TO THE STOMACH. A 1,000 lb. horse can be fed as much as 1/2-1 cup twice daily (most horses will find 1/4 to 1/2 cup palatable and need to be introduced to it slowly). Finally, for horses that have had ulcers in the past or are under high amounts of strnuous training or stress, a preventative dose of omperazole can be given to keep the development of ulcers at bay."

Okay, that's it.... I thought that very interesting of the hay and corn oil... who'd a thunk it! The key is, to make sure they have something to munch on all the time... no problemo, Mom's got that taken care of! The deal with Scamp would've been the damned bute and banamine!!!! ARGH!

Good point, breeding season, we all see our studs lose weight, pace, scream holler, carry on some. It as his 11 th breeding season, He wasn't the real upset type. Sooo stud owners, was this a once in a blue moon, or is this something we need to do some preventive measures on during breeding season?

Bute, Its a killer, of corse for a extended amount of time. I dont see how these old mares that are given it for like the last couple of months while they are in foal, have a stomach left. When we were pumping all those drugs into our new born that was hurt, that was the first thing and last thing we gave him was a stomach guard medication. Even 5 days after the last meds were given, My vet is sooo careful about that stuff. Great reading Mrs. Speedy fingers, thanks for the info. Have you ever talked to Shelia on the phone while she is typing, its like a Machine gun, tap tap tap tap tap tap...... zing. So, its back to oil to keep things rolling right along. Hummm. when we wean our babies, should we try to get them to eat some of the corn oil. or just shoot in the mouth. They are so hard to get to eat anyway when upset.

I already called my mom and told her any time she goes to SAm's she needs to get me the big deal of corn oil... have one that I just started working on... nasty mess... so far Jazz and Scamp love it... will be pulling the young'uns middle of next month... had to wait for Scamp's sister, and I'll get them started after Rick gets 'em halter broke...

Speaking of Youngins, When so we get to see new pics?????
Guess Im just as guilty. But Im pointing my finger at you!

not yet...the middle of next month when I pull 'em... Filly's really all of a sudden filling out, and she's for sure going to be a liver chesnut... hey de ho! Colt, thank the Lord, will be chesnut, but Kid's color.

I may have the only stud in history who actually gains weight during breeding season my trainer was like oh he looks ok then we took off his sheet and walked him past the tone and fit horses and we all about fell over laughing I swear he didn't look that fat at home.. Studly believes that since he is the only stud at home he can finish eating- the mares will still be in when he is finished the food may disappear..

Yep, Iddy Bitty is going to be a liver too.