Need some help with breeding issues (legal type)

Ok heres something that Ive been drug into, and I want to stay out of it but I cant. Heres the story:

I got a call from one of my friends. She is the one who bought Vegas' dam. When this lady bought her, the owners agent said that the mare COULD be bred back on foal heat, but she didnt guarentee it-I was there and heard all of it.

I went out to her place to check the mare and see how she was doing. She was pregnant, she had small bags, her butt was sunk in, the muscles were shifted and she was ready to foal out. I told her to call her vet and have her come out, she did and the vet said that she was ready to foal and that she could feel the baby kicking.

Well, I get a call from my friend saying that she had sold her on her foal date, and that she had moved to North Texas, on her foal date. This was at least a week and a half ago. Ok, I didnt like the idea of her doing that to the mare, to me thats just added stress that she didnt need. This mare doesnt take well to new living situations, she gets all upset, very easily stressed out mare here, and to top it all off she was ready to foal.

Ok, so yesterday, I get a call from her again saying that she is 6 kinds of pissed off at the agent who sold her this horse. I asked why, and she said that the lady that just bought her called and said that the mare had never been pregnant. Now the lady wants a free breeding with a LFG. Ok. She said that the mare was empty.

This is where it gets sticky...

At the time the mare was bred she and the stallion were owned by the same guy. There were no breeding contracts, nothing. He was just letting them breed like crazy.

Now my other friends, very good friends, own the stud. They just bought him 6 months ago. They never had heard anything about a breeding contract for this pair either, only cause there wasnt one to begin with.

So the newest owner calls and demands that they honor the contract that never existed, and now she wants a LFG.

When I bought on of my mares, they said she was in foal. I had her checked BEFORE I bought her, not because I didnt believe them, just for good measure. This is what both of the other owners should have done in the first place, at least I think.


This is what I think.

This mare was bought by my friend in foal, and she was still in foal when I went to see her, the vet even checked her in foal.

I think that my "friend" sold her on her due date, stressed her out in the trailer cause shes not a quiet easy hauler, and she lost the foal.
Maybe the newest owner is trying to pull something off, I dont know.

But that mare was IN FOAL, it was obvious. It wasnt a phantom foal either, the vet checked her.

But now she is demanding that the current stallion owner "Honor the contract", but there was never a contract to begin with. Now all of a sudden shes worried about a LFG, which she wasnt concerned with until after the mares foal date had passed, a week and a half ago.

My friends that own the stud are willing to work with her, but they dont feel that they are responsible for the free breeding and LFG. They told her that he was booked for the season, and said that they would try to get her in, and for half of the fee. She wasnt liking that idea much.

I feel very strongly about this, the mare was in foal and lost it due to someone elses greed.

Anyone ever have any dealings like this?

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv , and regardless of whether or not the mare was in foal, the stud has new owners. The previous "non"-contract was made by a previous owner, and in my opinion is null and void.

Something just doesn't sound right with the woman's story.

Well IF she was bred, this lady is saying she isn't/wasn't then there is a problem. If the mare indeed did lose the foal she is really due a rebreed since it did not stand and nurse.

I would make a visit to said place and see if there is or is not a foal at her side.

Let me see if I get this right. Your friend bought the mare, but DID NOT get a breeder's cert just in case she might be in foal? Right? That's the first mistake.

Second if said mare was vet checked safe in foal previous to selling, and she's not now... doesn't have anything to do with the people that now own the stallion - has everything to do with the guy who owned the stallion in the first place. Much less, the friend who didn't get a breeder's cert.

You don't say how far along the vet said she was in foal. I'm assuming pretty far. Uh, if she aborted the foal, or if the foal was born dead, that's one thing... but like Tara said, I'd go over there and see if she's not got a foal on her side. If I were the new stallion owner, I'd tell her to hit the road, doesn't have a thing to do with them, whatsoever!

She can't have "lost" the foal, if she was that far along... somebody would've seen a dead foal, unless in transport, something happened, and somebody literally toused a baby on the side of the road... GAWD!

Somebody needs to get a statement from the vet saying she was in foal and that the baby was alive at whatever date.

But the people who own the stallion right now don't have to honor anything.

Stupid question - was the mare even put on the stallion report for the stallion when previous owner had the stud and the mare?

And unless there was an actual written contract made about LFG, the people who have the mare now are up the creek without a paddle, period.

Another stupid question - I keep coming up with questions here... how do they know she was never bred? Did they take her to a vet?

Ok the greed part comes in when your friend sold the mare when she was ready to foal. The lady who bought her IN FOAL is the loser IMHO. I do not think that the new stallion owners have to rebreed the mare for free at all. Change of stallion ownership ends the rebreed and with no contract to begin with the new owner is SOL

Tara wrote:

Ok the greed part comes in when your friend sold the mare when she was ready to foal. The lady who bought her IN FOAL is the loser IMHO. I do not think that the new stallion owners have to rebreed the mare for free at all. Change of stallion ownership ends the rebreed and with no contract to begin with the new owner is SOL

I agree wholeheartedly here...I also can't believe a human being would sell a mare who was so obviously ready to foal. JMHO, for whatever it's worth. I feel sorry for the mare, and for the foal who was lost.

Well geez if this mare was indeed in foal and that close to foaling the one who owned her should have said ok you can buy this mare but since she is so close to foaling lets have her foal right here where she is comfy.

Now the lady who bought her says there is no foal that she was not bred someone somewhere is lying. Like I said have your friend pay a surprise visit to this lady and see that there is indeed no foal.

We all know when your going to foal a mare you need to move her into said foaling stall IF she is used to being out at least 2 weeks prior to the actual foaling. To have moved her at the point she was so close to having the baby and KNOWING she was a horse who does not settle in fast was just begging for trouble.

Either way the whole mess is one I would steer clear of like the plague.

I have to agree with CatB on this one. First of all there was not breeding contract to begin with. And, most contracts state if the mare is sold and the stallion owner is not notified in writting in so many days the contract becomes void. My contract says this as do all the ones I get for outside breeding..

The mare should not have been moved so close to foaling.. I would never do that. I do not move them right after they foal either. You are asking for trouble. Short local distance maybe.. But, nothing out of the area..

If the woman bought a mare checked in foal I think it goes back to the seller.. And, the vet records should be made ready. If the foal was lost in transport then it would be the person who transported her problem if the vet records are accurate.. When you sell a mare in foal anything can happen. The buyer may not take care of the mare causing her to loose the foal.

None of this was good horse business to begin with. Everything needs to be spelled out in a contract so everyone knows what is expected..

Thanks for all the input. The lady who bought the mare in the first place, my "aquaintence", really shouldnt even have a horse. She is more of the goldfish type.

SHe just had to have her, because she loved Vegas soooo much. She always knew how Vegas was and her ways, but once she got the mare, she decided that she was to much for her, that she was to much like Vegas.

Sheila~
No, she did get all the paperwork, all the stuff, breeders cert, and all. The mare was due March 25th, and she was sold on the 25th, and moved. The vet came out and said she was ready and that it was up to the mare now.

The mare was on the report too. There is an agent that handled all that, not the owner. He is CLUELESS.

Im soooo pissed off at this woman Im seeing red. I cant believe that she would do that to the mare. Worst of all is this lady is a paramedic and she said that the mare was good to go on that long of a ride. That is the last time I take someone to buy a horse. I only did it cause she does take care of her horses. Which that is why this is weird to me, its out of character for her.

She told me the day she sold the horse that the lady offered her an ungodly ammount of money, and she just couldnt refuse it.
.

I knew I should have bought the mare, I just knew it.

Worst of all the new owner is calling my other friends (the ones who own the stallion now) and saying that she works for AQHA, like she is trying to threaten them or throw her weight around.

My friends did call AQHA and told them what was happening, and the lady said that they DO NOT have any reason to re breed the mare, unless they just wanted to.

Some people make me want to scream.

I still think that the mares baby either died after being born, or was born dead. I know that she was pregnant, hell she was ready to blow when she left!!!!! .

Just bad horse business. Anyone who knows anything would not travel a mare that close. I went to the world sale one time and could not believe all those nice mares that were close to foaling being trucked around like that.. Made me sick.. I am way too sensitive when it comes to my horses.. My mares lay around and eat bon bons while they are in foal. And, have a nice big clean place to foal.. They are my special girls.. And, I teat them that way..

I can imagine how PO'd you are.. I would be too.

Agree wholeheartedly, Bluejay. Me thinks either she foaled in the trailer or she foaled when she got there and something happened, and somebody's a fooling somebody. Either way, new owner of said mare is SOL. If she had any issues with anybody, it'd be the owner of the mare who sold her, or the transporter... bad deal all the way around.

But new owner of stallion has nothing to do with it whatsoever.

The foal can't have just vanished into thin air. So it either died or is stashed away somewhere. Was the new mare owner wanting live cover? Cause it is hard to disguise a nursing mare. If it did not die, is it possible that she moved it onto another mare, or is bottle feeding it for some bizarre reason? I'd go take a quiet peek out there to check out the situation.