WATCHING THE PINTO WORLD SHOW

I'm trying to figure out why there are so many pintos with no white at all.

They are about the same qualification wise as APHA. My mare, Shelby A Star, she went top ten at the PtHA world show and she qualifies ONLY by facial white

Wait until you see the color classes though, they should be a little more spotty

No...These horses had no white....and I finally figured it out! BS pintos. I never thought of the pinto registry as anything but someone's money-making-project....Like the now defunct "grade horse" registry. I'm sure, at this point, that a good number of the horses are registered QHs and Paints...also 1/2 arabs, saddlebreds,and BLM mustangs....But it makes me cringe that anyone might breed a grade pinto to a grade pinto...

I watched the pinto world show for a while....Their awards really suck...and some of their events were more like what you'd find at a 4-H show.

Boy the nerves are getting to some of them in SMS. Not that it would not me either. But just Simple mistakes are being made. like ONE huge set over, or starting to step over and doing the bobble like should I go or not, Not going to the judge straight. Things like that. Not looking back when they leave the judge. Backing faster then the horse, just simple things. But to know you are showing at a world show, Congress was bad enough for me. But I did make a cut. Just not the finals.

OK< OK, I dont know who is watching BUT the girl With her hip thrown out and whisping her lead around like a rope, while the others are still showing in line up, even though the judgeing is done, I hope she does not place that is disrespectful. Id have chewed Kittie out for that big time.

Saw a sorrel being shown, His white did not even go up to the hocks, He had a star, strip and snip, very thin, Not another stitch of white on him, Unless its Way up under his belly. Look solid to me for sure.

You should have seen the jumping classes yesterday...I don't know why anyone would bother to haul so far...compete for junk awards....and ride a horse that doesn't have a clue as to how to get over that little jump. I saw several people nearly eat dirt.

What are the awards? I have satelite internet, so I can't really watch streaming video or it kicks me off the system.

They seemed to give mostly $50 coupons from a place I never heard of.....and ribbons....and some kind of dish.

Geez, after travelling to a world show, you'd hope to get something better than that.

And....These people were from all over the counrty....I saw a few from my old stomp'n grounds in Mich.

I missed it, but what were the prizes they were given? Were the halter classes mostly the solid paints? Do they have seperate halter classes for the paints with lots of white? If not, how come in a paint halter class most of them dont really look like a paint? Sorry for all the questions, but I dont really know anything about paint shows.

The BS pintos were showing right in the same classes with the colored. There were more color than solid. It's my guess that 99% of all of the horses at the show were registered Paint...or out of Paint parents, but not registered for what-ever reason.

I didn't watch for long at any given time, but I saw only one horse who was obviously not stock-type....I looked like a saddlebred cross to me. He won an English class....shown saddleseat.

As I said, the awards weren't anything much. Coupons ($50) .... I think only the top 3 got ribbons.... and some king of dish was mentioned. Nothing more. If they gave anything else, I didn't hear it mentioned.

I didn't watch. But, if Pinto has gone to BS then they need to be shot. They will put themselves right out like all the others that breed color and have none.. HELLO!!!! Color means color.. PERIOD.... I wouln't waste my time and money putting my paints in the registry if that is the way they have gone. UGH:!:

Our Prissy, registered Paint, was already registered pinto when we got her. I think a lot of people register their horses pinto thinking that it will be one more venue to show. (like the pallys and buckskins) It was my understanding, that when the pinto registry started, it was, for the most part, basically grade horses with color.

The quality of horses (I'm no expert) was actually what I would expect to see at a QH or Paint show. On the other hand, I saw a pretty good percentage that should never have left home. Clearly, it was a non-qualifying show. The people came from all over the country. I don't understand, given our economy, why anyone would spend money going to that show.

Maybe they feel being able to call their horse a world champion will help them out. After all, you see a overo or tobiano horse in an ad and you are going to assume Paint. Some people don't think to ask which breed association the wc was with.

Pinto is a registry for horses of all breeds that are colored.. This means x amount of white with some other color.. Not solid.. And, yes, some are grade.. But, are still white and some other color..

And yes, Paints with color can also be pinto's and shown that way..

I've always known what type of horses the pinto folks register....I just couldn't figure out WHY there would be BS....It turns out that they have their own breeding stock, but they also register BS from the APHA.

On a side note.....I'm sure it's just a regional thing....But where I came from, Michigan, many years ago....an overo was called a paint....tobiano was called a pinto.

Also...It seems that there are 2 pinto registries. The 2nd one is fairly new. In theory, you could register a horse with both.

I checked the internet...The grade horse registy still exists, but further registations are on hold because of a family illness. Clearly, it's someone's money-making business.

I don't see why there can't be BS pinto's while there is BS (Solid paint bred) paints? If they are tracking lineage why not right? Sometimes the two loudest colored horses produce a solid (Or so it seems... when generally there is an overo gene in the mix).

For most of us on the paint circuit, its a big insult for our APHA horses to be called a pinto, as a pinto is generally of unknown lineage with color.

My Grade mare bred to my APHA stud = a pinto baby

My AQHA or APHA or JC mare bred to my APHA stud = Paint baby (whether actually colored or not.)

I don't think you understand what I am saying. I understand the rules to Paint and pinto. I've bred for Paints....and I've also gotten BS babies. THAT I GET!!! What I don't get is....What is the point of BS for pintos? The only way I can see it, is that they are trying to model themselves after the APHA, but using horses that can't have a conformational breed standard. Since they include basically all breeds, and grade....How do you judge conformation? Each halter class would have to be broken down into body types. I was watching one of the English classes....All but one horse was wearing a forward seat/hunt-type saddle. One horse was shown saddleseat. The saddleseat horse won.... He looked like he could be a saddlebred....The others were stock-type. But how can you judge hunt seat and saddleseat in the same class? The judge would really have to use his/her imagination.

I've always considered the pinto registry to be sort of "dead end". Rather like registering a BLM mustang. There are a couple of registeries for them, and more and more shows every year. But who in their right mind would breed a BLM mustang, to a BLM mustang???? For that matter...Who would want to breed a BLM mustang at all??

I guess what I'm saying...The pinto registeries always stuck me as "make-believe" registries....And it's my guess that most of the horses at that show were actually registered Paints. But who would haul 1000s of miles for a chance to win a $50 coupon?

Pinto's and paints are not the same thing. Why have a BS pinto when that is just a color registry and has nothing to do with BS? Makes no sense.

The only way to get a BS paint is to cross two paint registered horses and get no color. There is no other place for them to go.. Paints are crop out Quarter horses PERIOD...

Pinto on the other hand requires the horse to have X amount of white on it and can be any breed.

BJ....Thank you!!!!! You said what I wanted to....and you did it in fewer words!!!!!!

I checked the internet....The old "Standard Quarter Horse" registry still exists....( I didn't look for the National.) They register grade horses that can prove 75% registered QH parentage, from each parent. How in the world would someone verify that? Hmmm...I also remember the "Model QH Assc". Geeez...I guess I'm showing my age!!!! The youngsters wouldn't remember those!!!

I see zero problem with the pinto people wanting to develop into more than just a color breed. They could very well have type standards rather than a breed standard. I think if someone wanted to breed on a quality pinto and got a solid, it would be nice for them to be able to register the horse in the association it's parents are from rather than just have to call it a grade.

I agree 100% with you. If someone wants to "develope" a new breed, the more power to them. I didn't see a single horse at that show that looked like he/she might be grade. I have no problem with the pinto people having a BS division. I did find it intresting that the BS horses were shown with the colored.

My concern would be a buyer who whether by inexperience or misinformation, being lead to believe that he was buying a Paint, or even a colored QH. "Yup, this horse is registered". I sure wouldn't pay the same price as a registered Paint. If someone has a grade horse that qualifies for the pinto registry, and they are embaressed that the horse is grade.....Pay a fee, and you have a registered pinto. I wonder how many people have paid money for a registered QH, only to find out that the papers are from the Standard QH registry.

Maybe the awards would have been better if the pinto world show hadn't had so many off-the-wall classes. It would give the show more integrity, as well as the registry.

Please read my post again... Reiningfan said it clearer....

But Paints are no longer simply "QH crop outs". We have our own lines, while yes we still utilize TB and QH blood. But there are some with two TB parents (Not recently registered of course) or with two AQHA parents (" "), or some with very very little outside blood. Our lines began with a lot of "foundation" paint horses who were never registered QH or TB..

ETA - The part you missed - "I don't see why there can't be BS pinto's while there is BS (Solid paint bred) paints? If they are tracking lineage why not right? "

I do understand everything that everyone has written. I do understand how ANY color-based breed can have BS....which now includes the pallys. I'm sure the buckskins won't be far behind. It's money in the coffers, more money being paid for membership, and more entries at the shows.

I think the point that I was originally trying to make has been lost. To me, the pinto registry is no different than registering a horse "bay". If I choose to buy a colored horse, it needs to be registered APHA. (grade is ok if it's just for my grandkids) We didn't even know that Prissy was also registered pinto til after she was in our pasture. Nor do I care. We would not have bought her if she were registered pinto only. If I wanted a horse of any other breed, (or no breed) we would have bought one.

I see the pinto registry as the red-headed step-child to the APHA. Just as there are "alternative registries" for the pallys and buckskins....that registers all comers, including ponies and minis. I saw that fact reflected in the performance(s) of many of the competitors at the pinto world show.

Watching the pinto show, I was impressed with the fact that the solid horses were competing colored. I don't think they should be in the same halter classes....But I see know reason that a BS Paint shouldn't be in the "under-saddle" classes with the colored. Color has no bearing on how well a horse moves or is trained.

I knew what you meant I just figure if they want to start recording lineage why not right? And in order to do that, they couldn't really ignore the SPB's. So maybe they are simply trying to up their registry quality?

I think colored and SPB should compete together in everything, besides of course color classes... Because color doesnt make a horse built better either right? If anything is obstructs you're view.

I compete open circuit right now with my Tovero stud and his tovero son. Generally we're competing against solid colored horses, and my stud is top 2 everytime. But my gelding while top 3 in SMS is not a halter horse by any means.. but if a judge is uber "QH type", we won't place simply because they dont like the white and the gorgeous blue eyes. However, its all part of the game I guess.