Cleve Wells.

This was posted on another forum, We all talked about this, and AQHA came though! Thanks Bluejay

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Cleve Wells Receives One Year Suspension and $10,000 Fine from AQHA
GoHorseShow.com
Published 04/22/2009 - 8:08 p.m. CDT Rate This Article:
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The AQHA Executive Committee met Wednesday, April 22 at its Amarillo, Texas headquarters. A hearing was called to determine whether or not the Executive Committee would pursue further action after upholding the recommendation made by the Professional Horsemen's Council to remove Cleve Wells from the Professional Horsemen Association. After a six hour hearing and deliberation, the Executive Committee’s decision was to suspend Wells for one year plus pay a $10,000 fine. At the end of the one year suspension, Wells must show cause for reinstatement. If cause is shown and he is reinstated, Wells will be placed on indefinite probation.

Wells was called before the Executive Committee in response to allegations of abuse to Slow Lopin Scotch, a horse which he had in training at his Burleson, Texas facility. Wells and his attorney attended the hearing in addition to Slow Lopin Scotch’s owners, Nicole Marr and Wayne Holley. Witnesses for both sides were also permitted to speak before the Executive Committee which is comprised of Jim Helzer – President, Johannes Orgeldinger - First Vice President, Dick Monahan - Second Vice President, Peter J. Cofrancesco III – Member and Gene Graves - Member.

The ruling handed down by the Executive Committee was due to Wells’ determined violation of AQHA Rule # 104(a). The rule reads as follows:

104. VIOLATIONS.

(a) No person shall treat any horse in a cruel or inhumane manner, including, but not limited to, the prohibited conduct specified in the Show Rules and Regulations section of this Handbook. Cruelty to horses other than American Quarter Horses is included in this prohibition, as it indicates a general course of dealing with horses, that is unacceptable for AQHA membership qualification. For violation of this rule, an AQHA member may be disciplined, suspended, fined and/or expelled from AQHA, and a non-member may be denied AQHA privileges. This prohibition against cruelty includes, but is not limited to, AQHA members and/or owners of American Quarter Horses, their agents, representatives and employees, the actions for that a member or owner are also responsible.

Honestly, Im shocked they moved on this. I was pretty sure they would let him slide. Its time they set an example, someone had to be used to prove a point, and it was him. Im happy with what they have done.

But I do have another question. Does this mean he is done showing for a year, or just off the Council?

Sounds like he's out of showing. In the case of a suspension I believe he also cannot transfer horses into his name, sign sbr's, etc.
He can still show NSBA shows, but ApHC and some other associations have agreements with AQHA and will uphold the suspension in their association as well. Don't know if APHA is part of the agreement.

Suspension If the supspension is from AQHA, he cant show/or show/sell/or purchase a horse in his name that is involved with AQHA.
Someone can correct me here. But from what I understand that is how it works. However, he say lets say at the Futurties At CONGRESS, or anywhere else. As they are not AQHA classes. He can show NSBA as well. He can go to an AQHA show and coach his clients. Train Paints, Appys, Pallys, ect. Just not AQHA Classes.

You cannot show in AQHA unless you are a member. He is suspended. And, from what I understand he holds an APHA judges card. I would think they will turn up their noses at him as well..

I am sure his business is finished. Would you send your horse to him? Course, he can just get someone else to do his work for him.. When he was pointing fingers he was blaming someone else at his barn. Well, he was the one getting all the money and was responsible for his customers horse. I can tell you what I saw of photos is, that was not new on the horse. It took time to get like that. COME ON...WE ARE NOT STUPID...

I hope this is not just and example. They need to go after all of them that are doing this crap. Stop promoting the cruelty to a horse to get in the show pen and win. I don't care how much money you float them. We are all sick to death of this. I am so tired of I am not even breeding my QH and have no plan to in the future. I do not support the AQHA BS..

Unfortunately, if you've talked to a few of his clients, they are standing behind him. Go figure. This will come and go, in another year he will get his membership reinstated and be back to doing the same thing. It's all very sad, but he is a big name and no matter what he did or didn't do, this is really just a slap on the wrist for him. I mean, c'mon, what is that $10.000.00 to him? Two or three horses in for a month of training? He can't show in AQHA, but when you really think about it, he could only ride one horse in one class at a time. No biggie for a catch rider to show that horse.

I'm not shocked they moved, they HAD to because this was made so public. Every horse person I know knew about this. There were even poles done on other forums and almost everyone thought a permanent ban from AQHA was appropriate. Hey, he would have had a few other associations to screw up horses in...

People who do things to horses like that or ALLOW it to happen do not deserve to even be around horses. I can't even explain the joy I get just from being in the barn, I couldn't even fathom how any person with a heart could do that, just makes me sick...

What I don't understand is the owner's responsibility in all of this. I mean I do understand that they trusted this highly reputable "trainer" to train and care for their animal but they should have been checking on their animals as well. I think that they should have some level of liability for the condition that this animal was in. (or am I being naive) What happened to this animal was horrible and everyone from the trainer to the owners need to be held accountable. If you can't find the time to check in on the animal you have in training maybe you don't need to have that animal? I just find this whole situation so sad I wish this wasn't just the tip of the iceberg and how do you do anything to make a difference? The trainers isn't the whole solution the win at all cost often starts with the owners I hate to say.

I was thinking about that too Lynn, I know if I had a horse in training I sure as heck would want to check on it. Like Bluejay has said, that poor horse didn't get like that overnight...

It's so sad what people do to win, at the cost of the horse.

i have one horse in training and my stud was in training for 60 days, and i cant get to see them but once a month. i work 2 jobs. but im in conest contact with the trainers.
i sold the stud horse. but my mare i keep a close eye on, shes my baby. but if the horse is a few hours aways then again ull be lucky to see the horse maybe every 6-8 weeks. you cant be there 24-7.

what cleve did was wrong. he should of been banned from showing all breeds, but we'll see what happens next year. im sure he'll get his status back and screw another horse up.
im only willing to only go so far to win.....

Well, if I sent my horse to a big time trainer in TX. I couldn't get there to see what was happening since it's about 3000 miles away from here. People ship their horses all over this country to trainers that are supposed to get them where they want to be. That is the game of polotics.. Get real

I don't blame the owner at all. They sent that horse to a top trainer to get them in the winners circle. Paid big bucks for it as well.. That is why we have trainers work with our horses that are slated for the show pen.

If you are just looking to get the horse going then by all means, keep it local. But, if you want the big one you better get out your wallet and go for the big time trainers that are winning. Make sure there is an endless supply of money there.

SB, if you think that this man will come back out unscathed your are sadley mistaken. There are a whole bunch of people out there that he will not be able to face. No one outside of his close friends will associtate with him from now on.

Let me put it in perspective. Can you imagine your life after you poop your pants at school in the lunch room (it went every where and all over the floor to boot, they all cleard out from the smell) and every body knows it

You will have one or two friends that will hang out with you. But, the rest will not want to be associated with you so they do not get clumped up in the poop your pants group.

Some people are just a piece of crap. This is the real life thing. He will never bounce back. All the judges know this and so do the people who have intrusted their horses to him.

I agree with you BlueJay. I don't see any problems with people sending their horses to trainers who they assume to reputable. Cleve Wells was a HUGE name in the pleasure industry. Yeah, there were rumors out there, but really, most people likely hadn't heard them or preferred to believe that they were bull. I hear negative things about trainers all the time. Some of those things come from other trainers and some are from people who's perspective is different than mine. I might think one trainer is good and another person might think that they are too tough.
In an ideal world they would have checked on their horse more often, but it isn't. Do I think the owner's should be held responsible? NO. They left their horse in the care of someone who seemed very professional and who wins. If they are held responsible, what good will it do? There would be even less people speaking out about what horrible things happen at some BNT's barns. And that will be detrimental to some horses.

Just a thought- but I still think if you have the kind of money to spend on the trainer and the showing which will equate to thousands of $s a month you could at least check on the animal every month or so. Like we all say that horse didn't get that way over night which is the only reason they have a case against Cleve at all. That took severel months. Assuming your horse is healthy isn't ok that to me is just scary. You could be writing big checks to someone who is doing absolutely nothing. Or your animal could be living on steriod injections to walk across the ground. You don't know without checking. My horses in training are usually several hours from me but that doesn't mean I don't take the time to check on them. Frequently at least until I am comfortably with the trainer and then at a minimum every other month whether it be at a show or something I get a visual. If you send your kid to boarding school are you not still ultimately liable for their welfare? Like I said maybe I just expect more and maybe the fact that these people are wanting justice for their animal should be enough but I think in this day and age people are sending off their animals to breeding facilities, trainers, etc... and then washing their hands of them and when in 6 months or a year the animal isn't exactly what they wanted crying foul. Well maybe they should have taken some interest in the first place. Maybe they should have gotten a trainer that was closer to home and they could have checked on THEIR animals. Like I said it is the win at all costs that drives people and I feel so sorry for their animals. This happens with our children too. People work 10-12 hr days drive 1 hr each way and can't understand why they know nothing about their children or why their kids have problems. HMMM. Sorry getting off my soap box now...

Everyone here knows that I've been through several trainers over the past couple of years... I've seen experienced good and bad.

My first experience(2000) with ever hiring a trainer turned into the ultimate nightmare. My colt ended up dead...My filly got two nasty splints. The trainer wasn't "directly" involved with injuring my colt, but he was the person responsible. The trainer's son was going to ride my 4yr...He was already well broke. The (then) 25yr old kid has a bad left knee. He prefers to get on from a stump in the front yard. Isaac moved...The kid jerked the reins...Isaac reared and fell on the stump....Broke some ribs. The kid was too scared to tell his dad. As for Angel's splints...the kid rode the $hit out of her.

I was absolutely paranoid when it came time to get a trainer for Tucker. Horse trainers in this area are rare birds. I found Van Batchelder, about 75 miles away. I researched him...He used to start colts for Al Dunning, and did lots of clinics with him. (google his name) I checked out his place. And he came to see Tucker. Van doesn't take all-comers. Tucker was treated like a king while he was there....Much better than at home!! His feet were always done, as well as his teeth. (the same for Angel when she was there) Tucker was trained to cut...cows AND buffalo!!!!

When Tucker came home his attitude changed a bit. Still gentle as a kitten, but didn't want to take me too seriously. He was "Mommy's g'boy"..I sent him to a team roper for 2 months. He starts colts too. He had a ball with Tucker....I had a blast riding him...My daughters too. It's funny...the team roper says that Tucker's attitude changes the minute I open my mouth. He says I'm inviting him to play.

I can see both sides of the issue...But the person you pay needs to be held responisble.

Quote :

But the person you pay needs to be held responisble.

I use a trainer, I didnt check on my mare for 3 months... And she was fine. It was winter, I sent her there to be rode for the winter. And the thought of her being hurt, or not taken care of was never an Issue, I agree with this part of the statement.... OK, folks, WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO CHECK ON MY HORSE? Why.. I have a contract, I am paying them to do a job. Does, you boss check on all the time? Mine does not, There are days, I see him for maybe a hour a day.. Im paying, THEM to care for my horse.. I dont think, I should be babysitting sitting them.. HOW HARD IS IT, FOR THEM TO CALL A VET, A OWNER! Ive had horses hurt before away from home. They call me, tell me what has happened, I know its a animal and I dont freak out when they get hurt. Spints, Well that has happened at home. I totaly agree with BlueJay, HOW HOW can it be the owners fault?????? If she saw him on Monday, and it happened on Tuesday, came back the Following Monday, (Just and Example there) It was already done, I dont know about you all, but I cant make daily trips.. I have horses and a husband at home too... Plus a job. I don't hold see the owners fault here at all.
And Yes, Silverbuckle, I too saw on line where some of his clients are going to bat for him, that is kind of them, however, what are they to do?

And with that said, have you ever felt like even though you paying for a job to be done, your almost afraid to go against your trainer, in fear they will boot you out??? I have friends that are going threw this now. I keep telling them, There is another person that would like to cash you check.

I also saw on line where CW had treatened to sue anyone that is speaking there mind on the matter. Oh, Nice !
He may not have done this himself, granted, but I would think his Quote Un-Quote ast. trainer was following his practice's. Yes, this person has been fired, to my understanding. But why would CW. Not walk threw the barn and check on HIS clients horses? HIS contract, HIS Barn. JMO.

Oh, Have you ever noticed what smart folks we are, we could just solve all the issues if they would just listen to us.. Hee hee..

The trainer who killed my Isaac threatened to sue me if he heard anything of me slamming his name. I should have sued him. That colt cost me a bundle!!!! Not to mention the vet bills, trying to save him. The trainer had been my shoer for about 3 yrs. I trusted him!!!!! The vet said he could have saved Isaac if he had been called right away. Instead, the kid knew the colt was hurt, and knew he was in trouble...he figured it was better to say nothing. As far as Angel's splints....The kid told us and his dad that she had them already when she got to their place. They always seemed to have a reason why I couldn't go see my horses. I see that guy every once in a while. I make sure he sees me.

I knew that I wouldn't be able to visit Tucker and Angel much. Not only because I work, and his place is so far away.....I was told right up front that Van wasn't around much on weekends because he shows cutting horses.

I was lucky that Tucker came home from trainer #1 with only a couple of hematomas on his chest. She (the trainer) took my $1,500 in advance, and ran like the crook she is. As far as I know, she saddled him only once. I actually saw that....I left his WN and 5-way booster with her. I gave him one when he got home. I have no reason to believe she gave it to him. Tee Hee....I saw her yesterday at Corral West....I made sure she saw me!!!!!!

Angel had never been ridden before she went to that trainer...She didn't have splints.

Lynn, your statement to win at what ever cost is the MAJOR problem with all that send to top names and pay more money then they would ever get back out of the horse. Polotics drives this. And, AQHA supports it. Also, keep in mind when you say you would not have a horse that does not have accomplishments on the record that this horse also went through what ever to get there. It's not done on week end shows by people who are nobody. The big players (even the phony amy) got there for a reason. Not likely that the horse was just fabulous on it's own..

I have seen it a million times. I will never be anyone because I will not go there.. The last trainer I used was a friend right down the road. Went and watched a couple of times a week. That did not prevent me from paying $3000.00 in vet bills on the filly when she got hurt in her barn. I was so freaking PISSED.. It was either pay it out of have the filly put down.. GAUD..

JJJ, as far as fear of the trainer kicking you out.. If you do not have control over that animal it needs to get the heck out of there. They work for you. Don't be a woos.. If you do not like what is going on and you are not getting what you paid for then pull out.. Otherwise, you are part of the propblem..