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 THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 29th 2007, 11:27 pm

Tucker is coming home from the trainer tomorrow morning.... He's got pigeon fever!!!!!!!!!!
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Cindy

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Age : 46
Location : HOUSTON TX
Registration date : 2007-02-07

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 2:56 am

If you are sure that's what it is IT IS HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS!!!! If he is going to be around other horses quaratine him for sure. He can be contagious for up to about 2 months or more. Also, you're going to have to bag up his bedding, etc because if it gets in the ground it can be passed on. Does he have abcesses already?

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Bluejay

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Location : Oregon
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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 9:56 am

WHOA, this is not good.. I had no idea.. We do not have that around Oregon as far as I know.. No

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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 10:04 am

We've already been through this all last summer!!!!!!!! There was a major epidemic of pf here last summer. My mare/his sister came down with it last July 7th. She was full of bursting abcesses for about 3 1/2 months. Tucker and Jazzy (the pony mare) never got it. Angel began to swell up forward of her udder a couple of months ago. There was some "thickening" in her udder over the winter. (she had horrible mastitis in both sides all last summer) I had the vet out to see her (finally!!!) on June 4th. He said the swellings were scar tissue that was pulled down by gravity, out of the udder. There is still some "thickening" in the left side of her udder. The swellings aren't hot and don't seem to bother her.

Ya....The trainer is sure he has it. She says it looks like he has a couple of grapefruits in his chest.

I can't figure out how my mare got it so bad....I never take my horses anywhere....No new horses come here.
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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 1:28 pm

Tucker is home. He looks like a million bucks!!!!!!!! Except for the 2 sacks hanging between his front legs. It's definately pigeon fever. He doesn't act the least bit sick.....Infact, he's running around in the round-pen....Trying to decide if he wants to jump the fence. He's got some scapes on his face....Stuck his head through the panels, trying to tease the horse next to him.

I'll try to get some pics of him. He sure is pretty.

The trainer wants him back as soon as the acesses are gone. She's giving me a free month. She started riding him a couple of weeks ago. She says he's doing fantastic, but he gets worked-up when he's out of his comfort zone. He's a whimp.
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Cindy

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 2:42 pm

When I lived in CA it was a big problem but that was about 10 years ago. I heard it slowly worked its way into NV.
PF is kinda like parvo in dogs in terms of it contagiousness and how if it gets in the ground it's hard to kill. That's why a quaratine is advised an the proper disposal of abcess matter is recommended. The animals can keep reinfecting not only themselves, but other horses as well. I think it can be transmitted via a mosquito.... not 100% sure though. I know it has a long incubation period, so a horse may have mild syptoms and then before you realize it, it's too late and every horse has been exposed.
Good luck with it and I hope you get it under wraps. Poor guy! Wink

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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 3:52 pm

Everything I've read says that the incubation period is from 30 to 90 days. PF is really rare here. It would show up occasionally over by Reno/Carson City....and it would be in horses that had been to Calif. Until last summer, no-one had ever seen it here. Infection lasts from 3 to 77 days. Angel had active abcesses for over 100 days. She lost a huge amount of weight. Most horses don't miss a beat.

My shoer does horses in Calif on a regular basis. We have now realized that this one guy had to have spread it all over this area. He was at my house 35 days before Angel swelled up.

The sad part is that they continued having horse-y events at the fairgrounds. I can't help but wonder how many horses carried it home with them.
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 8:58 pm

I assume there is no vaccine for this? I had no idea it was so contagious.. study

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Cindy

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 9:55 pm

Nope. No vaccine! It's yucky......

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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   June 30th 2007, 10:37 pm

Tucker's acting perfectly normal...I swear, the swellings look smaller this evening.
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QHorse163

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Number of posts : 311
Registration date : 2007-02-12

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 1st 2007, 6:53 pm

Can't wait to see recent pics. He is a gorgeous horse. I hope he gets better soon! At least he doesn't seem to be uncomfortable.
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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 1st 2007, 8:00 pm

I think he's beginning to run a little temp. I've noticed him drinking a lot of water today. (Angel did that) The swellings aren't getting any bigger...and they don't seem to be as full as they were yesterday...but they aren't draining.

He still won't let me get hold of him. He was never like that. He seems real "remote"....doesn't even want to be brushed....won't let me spray him. I gave him some COB with Bute powder....He won't eat it. I guess he won't get much supper tonight.
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stockman

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Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 1st 2007, 8:17 pm

Well at least you have some prior experience with this disease so you know what to expect. I hope you are able to get this eradicated for good in your area so it won't keep cropping up. That would drive me crazy. Good luck.
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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 1st 2007, 10:05 pm

I got 4 gallons of bleach nd a new 4 gallon sprayer....Have to take the sprayer back. It was broke and missing pieces.....I'll have to take it back tomorrow.

He's still walking around with the "deflated balloon" between his front legs. He finally let me brush him through the fence. He takes off if I get in with him.
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Cindy

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 1st 2007, 11:29 pm

Oh Yuck. I posted this for you from the internet..... it has some valuable info in it.

The disease is not transmissible to humans, although humans can carry the infectious agent on shoes, clothing, hands or barn tools and transfer it to another animal.Clinical signs include lameness, fever, lethargy and weight loss and usually is accompanied by very deep abscesses and multiple sores along the chest, midline and groin area and, sometimes, the back. Abscesses also can develop internally.The disease is called pigeon fever because infected animals often develop abscesses in their pectoral muscles, which swell and resemble a pigeon's chest. Although the disease is considered seasonal, with most cases occurring in early fall, a number of cases have been confirmed during winter months and other times of the year as well.The causative bacteria live in the soil and can enter the animal's body through wounds, broken skin or through mucous membranes. Additionally, some researchers believe pigeon fever may be transmitted by flies.The disease occurs in three forms: external abscesses, internal abscesses and limb infection, also known as ulcerative lymphangitis. The most common forms are external abscess and lymphangitis, with the prognosis of a full recovery being generally good. Internal abscesses are much more difficult to treat."Because this disease is so highly contagious, it is very important that veterinarians accurately diagnose these cases to tailor treatment and control," said Torres."Horse owners should be aware of the clinical signs and understand that veterinary care must be timely. Infected horses should be isolated, the abscesses properly treated and the drainage properly disposed of. The area where the infected horse is kept must be properly cleaned and completely disinfected because this is a very hardy bacterium. Pest control is extremely important"As a service to horse owners, Colorado State's equine veterinarians have created a fact sheet on pigeon fever (attached) that is posted on the Colorado State University website at www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/vth and www.colostate.edu on the news page.

FACT SHEET: PIGEON FEVER IN EQUINES

Common Names:
Pigeon fever, pigeon breast, breastbone fever, dryland distemper, dryland strangles, false strangles, false distemperGeographic Incidence: Endemic to California, but now found in most Western states in the U.S.Seasonal: Usually appears in late fall but can appear sporadically at any time of year.

Cause: Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis

Vaccine: None at this time.

Reservoirs and mode of transmission: Can live in the soil and enter the horse's body through wounds or broken skin and through mucous membranes.
May possibly be transmitted by flies, including the common housefly and horn flies.
Disease is usually highly contagious and can easily infect multiple horses on the premises.
Bacterium in the pus draining from abscesses on infected horses can survive from one to 55 days in the environment. It has also been shown to survive from one to eight days on surface contaminants and from seven to 55 days within feces, hay, straw or wood shavings.
Lower temperatures prolong the survival time.

Clinical signs: Early signs can include lameness, fever, lethargy, depression and weight loss.
Infections can range from mild, small, localized abscesses to a severe disease with multiple massive abscesses containing liters of liquid, tan-colored pus.
External, deep abscesses, swelling and multiple sores develop along the chest, midline and groin area, and, occasionally, on the back.

Incubation period: Horses may become infected but not develop abscesses for weeks.Animals affected:The disease usually manifests in younger horses, but can occur in any age, sex, and breed.
A different biotype of the organism is responsible for a chronic contagious disease of sheet and goats, Caseous lymphadenitis, or CL. Either biotype can occur in cattle.

Disease forms: Generally 3 types: external abscesses, internal abscesses or limb infection (ulcerative lymphangitis).
The ulcerative lymphangitis is the most common form worldwide and rarely involves more than one leg at a time. Usually, multiple small, draining sores develop above the fetlock.
The most common form of the disease in the United States is external abscessation, which often form deep in the muscles and can be very large. Usually they appear in the pectoral region, the ventral abdomen and the groin area. After spontaneous rupture, or lancing, the wound will exude liquid, light tan-colored, malodorous pus.
Internal abscesses can occur and are very difficult to treat

Diagnosis: Your veterinarian can easily collect a sample for culture at a diagnostic laboratory. It is important to isolate the bacterium to get a definitive diagnosis since pigeon fever can superficially resemble other diseases.

Treatment: Hot packs or poultices should be applied to abscesses to encourage opening. Open abscesses should be drained and regularly flushed with saline.
Surgical or deep lancing may be required, depending on the depth of the abscess or the thickness of the capsule, and should be done by your veterinarian.
Ultrasound can aid in locating deep abscesses so that drainage can be accomplished.
External abscesses can be cleaned with a 0.1 percent povidone-iodine solution
Antiseptic soaked gauze may be packed into the open wound
A nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug such as phenylbutazone can be used to control swelling and pain
Antibiotics are controversial. Their use in these cases has sometimes been associated with chronic abscessation and, if inadequately used, may contribute to abscesses, according to one study.
The most commonly used antibiotic for the treatment of this condition is procaine penicillin G, administered intramuscularly, or trimethoprim-sulfa.
In the case of internal abscesses, prolonged penicillin therapy is necessary

Care required: Buckets or other containers should be used to collect pus from draining abscesses and this infectious material should be disposed of properly.
Consistent and careful disposal of infected bedding, hay, straw or other material used in the stall is vitally important.
Thoroughly clean and disinfect stalls, paddocks, all utensils and tack.
Pest control for insects is also very important.

Recovery time: Usually anywhere from two weeks to 77 days.

Prognosis: Usually good with complete recovery, although some horses may experience recurrence.

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stockman

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 2nd 2007, 8:19 am

Yuck!! That sounds like a horrible disease! I glad you explained why they call it pigeon fever because I was wondering if it was transmitted by pigeons (which seem like pretty filthy animals), but then I doubted that there were too many pigeons in CA and NV!!!
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Triple J Quarter Horses

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 6th 2007, 11:57 am

Well Dangit, Sounds down right Nasty. Never have seen it only heard about it. Shoot, sure feel sorry for him. Looks like a long haul, but with the experience you have, you 'll have him up and going in no time. Good luck.

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Ragdoll



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Location : Nevada
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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 9th 2007, 7:48 pm

I forgot to tell you how this mess turned out!!!!!!! I thought the swelling didn't look quite right....and it went away real fast. It was a freeking hematoma!!!!!!!! Apparently, Tucker got kicked between the front legs by another horse!!!!!!!! The vet says that it ws no-way PF!!!!!!! I also have noticed that he was, and maybe still is, barely perceptably gimpy on his rt rear.

So.....I'm looking for a new trainer.....
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RoanRider420

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 9th 2007, 8:28 pm

Holy cow, did your trainer put him out with another horse?? I would kill him! Janie is not allowed to go out with other horses, EVER! We have never put any of our show horses out with another horse. I don't even like it when the minis are on the other side of the fence from her. I hope he feels better soon!
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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 66
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Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 9th 2007, 8:46 pm

This lady trainer is a real piece-of-work. Super-nice lady. I really liked her!!!! Very friendly, very knowlegable....She, however, failed to tell me that she's a pro barrel racer, (I won't mention her name) and that she is NEVER home for more than a day or two, or three. I have to admit, she taught him to load like a champ, and the one time I was "allowed" over to her place, I watched her saddle him...Lead rope laying on the ground. Tucker was supposedly being kept in a pen made of panels. She did mention having turned him out with 3 cows...and how much he liked "working" them.

I shouldn't have paid her 3 months in advance. I think she thinks that I'm a rube. I will admit, I can be way too trusting. She says she wants him back at the end of the month for 30 days....The amount of time she feels she owes me because she was gone so much. I don't think so. I doubt that I'll ever hear from her again. She never called with even one update....I called her twice....and she let me know in a "nice" way that she'd call me. I ran into her in a fast-food place one day. I stood right behind her. She said "Hi", then stepped around to the other side of her husband, just to let me know that she wasn't going to talk to me.
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!   July 12th 2007, 3:01 pm

Sounds like you have been had.. And, I know what you are talking about with the hematomas. My mares come up with them now and then when they kick each other.. affraid

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