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 Bacterial Mastitis?????

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Ragdoll



Number of posts : 385
Age : 65
Location : Nevada
Registration date : 2007-04-02

PostSubject: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 20th 2007, 11:44 am

OK....Here's one for the books.........

Last July 7th my 8yr old mare developed pigeon fever, as did nearly every other horse in the area. My 2yr old filly and yearling colt did NOT get it!!!!!! Weird. Anyway.....Everyone else's horses were over it in a week or so......But not mine!!!!!!!!!! The last abcess broke the 1st of October!!!!!!!! She had to have lost about 80lbs....The abcesses were confined to her underside and chest. They even got into her udder. She re-gained all of her weight real fast.....She was on Bute paste the whole time. The vet refused to come out....He said I was making too much of it. The winter passed without incident, and she was back with the other horses the 1st of Novembar. The only thing that bothered me was that her udder was shot. Stretched out of shape....Thickened in some places. About a month ago I noticed that the thickening was getting worse.....Then suddenly, she developed 2 elongated swellings that move forward, toward her belly....about 6 inches long. None of the swellings are rock-hard. Firm with like a layer of fat over them. I really can't tell if they bother her at all. She likes to have her udder scratched....But she's always liked that. I've tried to get my vet to come have a look....and he still refuses. He said it just takes time to get over it.......BUT A YEAR???????? She's on 2grams of Bute powder, twice a day. I don't see it getting better, but I don't see it getting worse. She's otherwise in real good shape....slightly fat. Eats like a piggy.

Anyone have any ideas?????????
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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 20th 2007, 5:31 pm

ok here's my 2 cents worth.... I'd get a new vet becausehe isn't taking your concerns serious you are paying the man/person and 2nd bute is the wrong drug for soft tissue swelling banimine is more appropirate for the swelling you described but vets often wont give it because it is given IV but you can give it orally just some don't. Bute is for orthopedic swelling joints etc... the amount you have been giving for the amount of time you have been giving it is just asking for an ulcer... that is totally an unacceptable use of that drug by most equine practicioner standards w/o ulcer profolactics... I would hate to loose the use of an udder on a mare I wanted to breed in the future... Just my opinion sorry if it sounds kind of harsh I can tend to be opinionated.... Rolling Eyes
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Ragdoll



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Location : Nevada
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 20th 2007, 8:19 pm

I wish I could get another vet. He's the only one for 150+ miles. The funny part....He gave me this horse when she was just a baby. I checked on the internet...Even the university sites say to use Bute. Ya...I had intended to have her bred this year, but I'm sure her udder is shot. At least the left side is. I can express fluid from the right side, and it isn't as firm as the left.

She doesn't act the least bit sick. Infact, she was just running around like a fool. As I said, the swellings aren't hard....just firm.

I've never had any experience with pigeon fever....I'd hoped that someone else has. She was supposed to go to a trainer next month, but she won't take her til it's gone.
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Cindy

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 20th 2007, 11:21 pm

I have a friend with a mare that gets mastitis once or twice a year and she has to actually milk her and put her on antibiotics. I would definately get a second opinion.

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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 20th 2007, 11:57 pm

I found an interesting article from Colorado State U. I think they are about the best around...

http://www.completerider.com/ucolorado/PIGEONFEVERINEQUINES.html

they do say to use bute my bad Embarassed however I would stop the bute now or cut back at least.... she has been on it a really long time... I would be worried about her stomache... but they say antiobiotics may cause chronic abcessess...hmmm... it sounds like if you can you should try warm moist packs to her udders to see if you can draw out any possible abcess.... might be a good place to start at least
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 12:04 am

Sounds like you are stuck with a crappy vet for sure. I understand you situation with no choice. There are many places this happens. Bute is a nice form of asprin (joint/lamness). Banimine is used for soft tissue.. Soft tissue is the stuff in side like guts, tummy, etc. I use bute for acks and pains and Banimine for gut trouble.. If she is not in pain I would not use anything.. If the swelling it is not soft then you will not get rid of it with either... Bute and Banimine come in paste form or injectable. I use paste.

As far a pigeon ds. It is primarily in the chest. That is why they call it pigeon.. We do not have this in Oregon. The folks from CA get it a bunch.. coffee Sound like your area too Question

If the mare is not recently weaned or nursing it does not sound like mastitis to me.. I am certainly no expert on this.. I only worry about that at weaning time or nursing.. And, when getting near foaling I have had a few that get edemia and it can run most the way up the underside of them.. I had one mare that got that really bad.. Looks rally painful and strange.. Vet said it was OK.. And she was OK.. cheering

If she is not in pain I would not medicate her... You can use many remedies people use on your horses. Remember warm will pull something out and cold will reduce swelling.. I think someone on the forum had a mare that her utters split open and milk was running out of them. I thought that was pretty wild. Yet the mare was OK..
scratch

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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 8:23 am

Oh Ya....She had the full-blown PF. Her chest swelled and exploded twice, on both sides (she has bald scars where the drain-holes were) The abcesses went from her chest, all the way back into her udder. She had 3 abcesses in her udder, that I know of. Her left hind leg swelled up twice. She wouldn't eat....Took her all day to eat her grain....Sometimes all night. I would drain the abcesses by pressing on the sides of them with a bent sweat scraper. The pus looked like thick custard...tinged with blood. I could easily gets 6 cups of pus out of each abcess!!!!!!!!

I can't figure out how she got it. She hasn't left my property in 7yrs. No new horse had come onto our place in 2yrs. The other 2 here never got it. My 20yr old mare is at my daughter's house, 4 miles away. She got it. One abcess on her neck....The vet DID see that one. It was gone in a few weeks. I realize that flies can carry it....But those flies had to have come from a long way away.....And my horses are sprayed every day. I've also been told it can live in the ground for up to 50yrs. We've been here 20yrs. The vet said that someone started it by bringing some "dirty" horses from Cailifornia. I'd like 10 minutes alone with that person!!!!!

I agree....I'm not comfortable with Bute. She's getting 2grms of apple flavored Bute powder, twice a day. I'm afraid to give it to her, afraid to take her off.

I'm told that PF is new to this part of the country....Common in California. I don't know anyone whose horses didn't get it.... Except 2 at my house, and 4 at my daughter's....But my mare seems to have gotten it far worse.

Other than the swellings, she's perfectly normal. Oh, and the vet told me not to express the fluid out of the right teat. There are no "soft spots" in the swellings. She's never been bred.
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 11:32 am

It sounds like you may just have some scar tissue there.. If this went all the way back to her utters and she had abcesses there. If it's hard and not painful it could just be scar tissue.. study

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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 12:47 pm

Scar tissue. That's what I thought too.....Til the "scar tissue" traveled to her belly about a month and a half ago....back where her udder meets the belly. One elongated "lump" for each side.

I looked back on last year's horse log....I figured out how the PF got here!!!!!!! I don't know why I didn't see it before!!!!!!!! The shoer was here!!!!!!! Just a few days over a month before I found the first swellings!!!!!

I didn't give her the Bute powder this morning.
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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 1:43 pm

If you are really worried about pulling her off the bute start by 1 gram 2xs a day and see how it goes... then 1/2 gram 2xs a day.... I would try warm packs 2 xs a day for 15-20 minutes if you can to those spots and see if you have any changes... measure them 1st and then every couple of days so you can keep track of any changes. That is what we do with wounds on pts at the hospital we also photo them weekly.
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 4:08 pm

Warm packs sound good. Lynn, if it was just swollen glads would the warm packs take the swelling down? Since this showed up long after the fact could be swollen glands and not scar tissue. study

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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 4:59 pm

It couldn't hurt even if it is scar tissue won't cause a problem...
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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 5:18 pm

Lynn M......You're a nurse? I'm an LPN/EMT.

Ya...I'm going to do the hot packs. I've been wanting to do it all along, but the horses are a long way from the house....There is no practical way to bring her to the house. You'd have to see my place tp see what I mean.

The odd thing about the swellings....There is no heat in them.....Just normal body heat. I'd really like to take pictures and post them on here, but frankly, I don't know how to use the digital cameras, much less post the pictures.

Gonna go out now and wash her with hot water and Betadine.
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 7:02 pm

Small world. I am an EMT.. I find many things I would do for a human work really well on animals as well. I always try those remedies that can do no harm.. Nothing to loose there.. And, everything to gain. Good luck and let us know how this works..

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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 8:08 pm

Cool!!!! Ya...It's a small world!!!!!!! I find I use the EMS training for emergencies....The nurses training for the other stuff.

I gave the udder a good scrubbibg with Betadine and real warm water...Held a pack to it for a while. I'm lucky that she loves the attention. The swelling extends upward, about the width of my hand, forward about 6 inches...on the left side. Not so bad on the right. As I was washing, a big squirt of fluid came out of the left teat. I gave her one scoop of Bute powder. She gobbled her grain and picked at her hay. She doesn't like it because it's pretty stemmy.

I'm wondering if epsom salts soaks would help.
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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 21st 2007, 8:30 pm

might be kind of hard to do... too bad it isn't a more convienient location... what part of Nevada are you in... I did my undergrad degree at University of Nevada Reno.... grew up just across the hills in CA a couple hrs... married a KS boy...
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Bluejay

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 23rd 2007, 9:55 pm

Sounds like maybe there is some fluid in there and the soaking is working.. That is cool.. I bet it feels good to her as well.. kitty

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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 24th 2007, 1:03 pm

it would be interesting to take a sample of the fluid to UNR and have the microbiology lab grow it out see what it is... bet they would
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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 24th 2007, 10:30 pm

That is a great idea.. cheering Might lead this to something to help... scratch

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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 24th 2007, 11:17 pm

That would be great....But I don't know how I could make that happen.....Short of hauling her to Reno and back....400 miles, round-trip. It would be easier to have the vet come take a sample....But that's the problem. The vet refuses to come out!!!!!! He just keeps saying the same thing. Pigeon fever.....and that it will eventually go away.

I know what the PF abcesses feel/look like.....God knows I've seen more than my share on this mare!!!!!!! These swellings aren't like that. They are flat...1-2 inches thick.... No soft spots or escoriated skin. About the same size and shape of my hand. They are firm, but not hard. They don't seem to be hot....The same temp as up between her hind legs. They don't extend up unside her body....I can move them, and "get hold" of them.
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stockman

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 24th 2007, 11:29 pm

I honestly don't understand the vet's refusal to come out. That's ridiculous. Sip of Rum had this problem with her vet too. If you are paying them, they should come out period. They can't possibly be that busy.
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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 24th 2007, 11:42 pm

I can't figure it out. It's actually 2 vets....Father and daughter. They both say the same thing. The father gave me the mare when she was a little baby. You'd think he'd care.

There are so many horses here (and cows) it isn't even funny. I'm sure they are both busy. You'd think one of them would be intrested in 11 months to come out. I guess they assumed, like I did, that the PF was long gane last fall.

I didn't expect her udder to look normal again....I assumed that there would be some scar tissue. It's the new swellings that bother me. She doesn't mind me playing with them....She doesn't act like they hurt....And if they really itched, they are in a position that she could reach back and scratch them herself.
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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 25th 2007, 3:56 pm

The vet is coming on the 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Lynn M.

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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 25th 2007, 5:18 pm

yeah hoooo victory.... another reason for more of our youngsters to go to vet school and get past some of this crap!!! Reno is a great place to live... Id go back there in a heartbeat!!!!
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Ragdoll



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PostSubject: Re: Bacterial Mastitis?????   May 25th 2007, 6:58 pm

Reno is way too big and fast for me!!!!!!! We go there only if we HAVE to. I go nuts at the thought of driving anywhere near there. The highway into Reno has always stopped us from showing there. All those tight turns at 80+mph!!!!!!!! And the spaghetti bowl!!!!!!!!!! I think I have been there twice in the last 5 years. Actually, we go only when one of us is in the hospital there.

The last I knew, the town we live in has under 7,000 people.
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