Paint people... got a couple of questions

I haven't done this in a while, so I need a clarification on something.

1) If you have say two inches plus UNDER the chin of white, does that constitute enough white, with two blue eyes? I know the blue eyes isn't a deal that'd make it work, but I wasn't sure about how much under the chin it has to go. She has an L-shape of white on her side, and a bit under that, but no way will it be a 2x2 inch square.

2) This is a granddaughter of CAlico Sonny, and is one whale of a filly! Looks typical of Calico Sonny babies. Do any of you know if Calico Sonny got his quarter papers?

Thanks!

RG-070 Color Requirements

A. A Horse meeting Bloodline requirements outlined in rule RG-015, must have a definite "natural Paint Marking".

B. For the purpose of this rule,the term "Natural Paint Marking" shall mean a predominant hair coat colorwith atleast one contrasting area of solid white hair of the required size with some underlying unpigmented skin present on the horse at the time of its birth. This solid white area must be in the prescribed zone depicted in the illustration below. In the event the horse has a predominately white hair coat, the term "Natural Paint Marking"shall mean at least one contrasting area of the required size of colored hair with some underlying pigmented skin present on the horse at the time of its birth. This colored area must be in the prescribed zone depicted in the illustration below.

C. the "natural paint marking" as described in B. above must extend more than two inches and be in the prescribed zone depicted in the illustration below.

D. the "natural paint marking" on a horse with both parents registered as described in rule RG-015. may be anywhere on the horses body or legs behind a line.

1. (reference point 1) from the base of the ear forward horizontally to the base of the other ear; or,
2. from the base of the ear to the corner of the mouth; or,
3. From the corner of the mouth, under the chin, to the other corner of the mouth; or,
4.(reference point 2) above a level line around the leg midway between the center of the knee and the floor of the chest; or,
5. (reference point 3) the point represented by a level line around the leg midway between the point of the hock and the center point of the stifle.
6. The "Natural paint marking" need not be visible from a standing position.
7. Non qualifying areas include, but are not limited to the following;
a: eyeballs
b: Lips of vulva
c: shaft of penis
d: inner sheath not visible without physical manipulationof the area.

E: To be eligible for registration in thje regular registry, a horse must posess one additional paint horse trait (see RG-070) that need not be visible from standing position if the "natural paint marking":

1 Exception 1: Occurs in an extension of a high stocking beyond reference point 2 or reference point 3. the "Natural Paint Marking"must extend more than two inches, be one solid white area and have some underlying unpigmented skin. The extension must be in excess of two inches above the line specified (either horizontally or vertically).

I typed out the rest of what it says in the rule book........ and it didnt post it and I lost it....... so here it is again.

2 Exception 2: occurs in an extension of a face marking beyond reference point 1. The "Natural Paint Marking" must extend more than 2 inches, be one solid white area and have some underlying unpigmented skin. The extension must be in excess of 2 inches beyond the line specified (either horizontally or vertically)

3. Exception 3: Which extends more than two inches and occurs between the center of the knee and reference point 2. or the point of the hock, and reference point 3 and is NOT connected to a stocking. The "Natural paint Marking" must extend more than two inches, be one solid white are and have some underlying unpigmented skin. The potential qualifying area must be in excess of two inches above the center of the knee or the point of the hock (either horizontally or vertically). When measuring the white marking in all instances, the white marking must exceed 2 inches, to clearly show that it is in excess of two inches, a ruler may be used.

F. Additional Paint horse traits for purposes of this registration rule are listed below. These markings alone do not qualify a horse for the regular registry.
1: White leg markings extending above the knee and or hock(s)
2. Glass, blue or watch eye(s)
3. Apron face or Bald Face, described as outside a line from the inside corner of the eye to the inside corner of the nostril
4. white on lower jaw or lip
5. blue zone around the "natural Paint marking"
6. Two colored mane, one color being natural white
7. Dark areas or freckles in white hair on the face or legs
8. white areas in the non-visible zone, excluding the head, completely surrounded by a contrasting color.
9. A contrasting area of another color in the non-visible zone including the head, on the predominantly white horse.

G Any horse registered in the regular registry which has marginal color , or color which may not be easily observable, shall have noted in their "remarks" section of their registraion certificate the size and location of the qualifying area. If inspected the date of the inspection shall be noted.

Ok! phewf! lol hope that helps you. If not, check out www.apha.com or email askapha@apha.com

Thanks, Merikle, sorry for the trouble. See the D.3 and the F.4 is going to get me confused. I'll just shoot a picture for ya and then maybe you can tell me... HA!

7cedars wrote:

Thanks, Merikle, sorry for the trouble. See the D.3 and the F.4 is going to get me confused. I'll just shoot a picture for ya and then maybe you can tell me... HA!

lol yea, do that and Ill see what I can do for you

I get what the rule says now... the white like has to come past where the curb chain would be... it doesn't. So we'll see on the double paper thingy.

You do have to have one APHA parent or no go...

Yeah, I know... the mare is a breeding stock paint. Oh, sweet, just pulled up the mare's papers, her dam is quarter. So if Calico Sonny has his quarter papers, it'll be real easy to get her quarter papers and the baby's.

The way the rules are written confuse me. I have a mare that has a white lip, goes down over her chin then a white mark that is 2" long. Does that qualify her for APHA papers? She is older so the new rule would not apply to her on the paint parent thing.

I have a really nice QH colt that is loaded with color I could have sold a million times if he was eligable.. He is not due to the no paint parent rule. I have a lady in VI working with me to see if we can get paint papers on this mare.

Bluejay wrote:

The way the rules are written confuse me. I have a mare that has a white lip, goes down over her chin then a white mark that is 2" long. Does that qualify her for APHA papers? She is older so the new rule would not apply to her on the paint parent thing.

I have a really nice QH colt that is loaded with color I could have sold a million times if he was eligable.. He is not due to the no paint parent rule. I have a lady in VI working with me to see if we can get paint papers on this mare.

I am pretty sure, since the rule change that any horse being registered now must have atleast one APHA registered parent. So I don't think they will allow it... but its worth a try!

You are right they will not *grandfather* a horse into APHA since the new rule. It is the same as those cremello horses who *used* to be only able to register in APHA, now they will no longer allow them to be registered that way because of the rule change.

Will be interesting what they say.. They told me it was any foal born after 2005. And, the person at APHA told this gal to send her photo's and what it would cost. So, we did that.. I personally think she does not have enough white on her to qualify.

Odd they would say that since 2 friends of mine have 3 year old cremello stallions <born 2004> and they will not accept either one of them into APHA now. Real sham since if they did and you bred your QH mare <chestnut say> you would get a 100% yellow foal who THEN would be registerable AQHA/PHBA/APHA but they were told nope it is a one paint parent rule now.

Keep us updated on whether that horse your talking about gets in.

See, that is exactly one reason why I'm out of APHA now... the crop-outs were what made APHA to begin with... DUH!

I'm telling you guys, the line is going to get real blurred at some point... you won't be able to tell if you're at a paint or a quarter show! And truthfully the papers is what scares me... somebody who actually has a paint horse that has double papers, but only advertising it as a quarter, and one of us stupid (thinking me here) buys the danged mare, because I didn't see the freaking paint bloodlines or didn't know them. GAWD!

Boy, if you don't think I'll be ticked big time to have a wild-colored up baby out of a supposed quarter mare... ooowee!!!!!

even if you get a wild colored foal and it has quarter papers still can show it now though that counts for a lot... my 2 double registered mares you would never guess had apha papers as well, very non colorful a blaze and a little white but not as much as my stud. What Bluejay needs is some beautiful double registered mares with that boy of hers producing like he is man she could be cleaning up in both markets...

Oh, I agree, Lynn. Anybody who's out to get paints and quarters, especially with Bluejay's stud, you ought to be breeding to as many double-papered as you can.

Course if I got one of those colored-up things that I wasn't expecting.... I'll be danged if I'll be THE FIRST PERSON to take a paint to a quarter show... GAWD! I betcha there's going to be a lot of yeyaw going on about that.