Im in shock

Can across a website of a very well known breeder of reining horses in TN.

They Cull there mares if they dont produce good foals,blame it on the mare why dont they,What happened to a stallions influence.
Also if they dont make money from said foals they cull the mares.Also lots of various reasons.
I just cant believe they would do that,how cruel
Those mares could go into loving homes and just cause those lines dont mix together dont say that others wont.
Im so ANGRY

OMG... thats Horrible!! Unfortunately though, I have seen it before... Its very sad. Do you have the web address?

I do but i dont know if i should post it.
Its a top reiner that lives there,a pally

OMG, I have never heard of that.
YES, what about the stud's contribution???

Who is is????

When you say "cull" the mares, you mean sell 'em or put them down?

I hate to say it, but I've always done that... mare is anywhere between 65-75% of the baby...I don't know if I'd say "cull", just sell 'em.

It definately says Cull.

sod it here you are
http://hilldalefarm.com/reading/mares.htm

If its clearly advertised on website im not doing anything wrong

Shazegoff, these are some really great BREEDERS! They definitely know what they're doing, and they're TOTALLY RIGHT! Every breeder should follow their example!!!

Any mare I buy, I give them 2 foals, unless the first one is just downright nasty... if the second foal isn't what it needs to be, they're gone... and I mean, in a heartbeat!!!!

By the way, your break even point on a foal hitting the ground... literally the first day of their life, you've already got around $1,000-$1,500 in them. If you don't own the stud, then add that money to it.

The market is terrible enough as it is...and people wonder how come I don't want to breed anymore! Criminey........ LOL!

I agree, the horse market is in hard times right now... due to the economy and over breeding. I gave a few of my mares a year off last year, so they themselves could return to the show ring for more accomplishments to their own record, as the market value is getting tougher and cannot just make it on one side accomplishments. I do own two stallions, yet I am very strict in my breeding out line. I never breed just to breed, as I know of many places that do. Well those are the ones with offspring of 2yrs old at $900... and we wonder why the horse market is what it is... What possible profit is there to even do it this way???? I can't understand some people. I make sure I have bred for improvement, offering the best quality that I can and that I have my own personal market before it even hits the ground.

As breeders and buyers we need to concentrate on finding and creating the best athletes we can !

I'm in agreement here too, there are way too many people breeding horses just because they have a mare and can afford a stud fee. Some are blessed with phenomenal stallions, who do truly stamp their foals (Think Mr Yella Fella, you can spot his get a mile away in the show ring.) but on average, it is more the mare that goes into the baby. There are way too many good horses going too cheap right now, but there are a lot of crappy horses going even cheaper, and they will always have a market, because everyone thinks they're getting a great deal when they pay under a grand for a horse with papers that's under saddle... I really wish people would utilize spaying for mares, like they geld stallions. Look at dogs, if a *censored* doesn't produce quality stock, she is spayed, plain and simple. Doesn't mean they're bad, just means they shouldn't produce. I really do think those breeders are on the right track...

Cull just means to remove from the herd so basically, they just don't keep them to use as broodmares. Why is that upsetting?

To Cull over here means to kill,to get rid of.Thats why i was shocked but as 7c expalined thats not the case there,so all is well.

Funny one should mention spaying yes i agree why cant more be done on that front.Over here its not that common and vets that would do it here are few and far between.

Ive heard Cull used as kill too, so thats what I was assuming...

My brother-in-law has a spayed mare - she is an amazing roping horse and he has been offered a chunk of change for her..
He didn't want to deal with a mare's hormones so he spayed her...
Since he was going to spay her he didn't get papers on her either (ranch in South Texas)...
All of their horses come from registered stock but they don't register them or really breed them unless they need a replacement...very interesting!

yeah. wrong term. cull=kill.
i totaly took that as them killing stock as well. maybe they should change their words.

1: to select from a group : choose 2: to reduce or control the size of (as a herd) by removal (as by hunting) of especially weaker animals; also : to hunt or kill (animals) as a means of population control

and if they did mean kill. then they are in the wrong business and should stop breeding horses.

I agree Trucker.Im still reading it as the word Cull-kill.

Why cant they say that they sale or any other word but Cull.

I sure hope its not Kill

You guys are funny... I might need to check that website again - see if they're from the south... as I told Shazegoff, the term is used mostly with cows... since they're reining trainers, I'm sure they have cows somewhere. In the dictionary, i.e., Webster's, it says nothing about "kill".

They're not killing them, I'm sure - I mean, why would they, when if they sell them, they can get some money back. Just because one particular mare won't work with a program doesn't mean she won't work with somebody else's program.

Every sale you ever go to, somebody's "culling" their herd. Every horse on Dreamhorse or Equine, including my own, are getting "culled" for one reason or another. Whether it's financial, slimming down, doesn't work in the program, whatever... the term cull can be used for all that.

I think it's great, though, that they've put that much information on their website as to their high standards on breeding. I know for sure all of us halter people do that!!!!

We ALL do it -
Race horse folks can be really really really fickle!

Here is an example - a very dear friend of mine had a mare who hadn't produced a really solid runner in a long time...she didn't take one year when he tried to breed her so - he loaded her up and took her to the cattle auction (he is older and very old fashioned in some ways). He got $400 for her (keep in mind this was a well bred, well conformed mare in good condition who was about 15yrs old if I recall correctly). 2wks later her 2yo qualified to a futurity

Oooops - he just chalked it up as an "oh well" and moved on... Her yearling sold really well as a result and he washed his hands of the whole line...

We all cull for different reasons and what might not fit my program might create a champion in yours...

I know them, yep, Doesnt surprise me at all...

I've never heard the word cull used for killing, I grew up with the word when my family raised AKC red bone hounds, if a female wasn't up to par, we'd cull her. =Spay and Sell, or sometimes, if she was a nice female and just wouldn't cross well with one of our dogs, we would sell her as a breeding animal. I go on cattle drives with all the major ranches down here too, and they use the word cull, doesn't have anything to do with killing. They might say, we need to cull all the half breeds, just means the half breeds are going to an auction... I think you're looking a little too much into this, it would not be financially feasible for them to put down a mare that they #1 Paid for to start with, #2 Trained and showed (almost ALL of their mares are proven in the show ring before being bred.) #3 They could make a huge profit off this animal just for showing alone... Also, you need to look at the type of playing field they are on, they are pros and have top horses in all divisions. Not every reiner is going to make the cut on that level, and odds are, if they don't make it, neither will their offspring. Doesn't mean that mare couldn't go out and do some local reining stuff, or her future offspring, just means that her baby probably isn't going to be a prospect for the NRHA Snaffle Bit Futurity...

im sure you guys are right but just so you know in the oxford dictionary the word cull means

select (animals)according to quality,esp poor specimens for killing.(b) reduce the population of (an animal) by selective slaughter.

strange how these things mean in different countries

well im from the south. and where i grew up. (on a dairy farm as well as a Horse farm) Cull ment to kill.

and it does say kill in my dictionary.
so just goes to show you how different words have different meanings.

Ok, Guys, CULL doesnt = Kill... Im from Calif, Illinois, Flor. Mich, Mo., N. Jersey, TX, These are places I have lived. Can you tell my Dad was Navy and C.G. Lived on Farms, City, hated that. Cull, means Sorting out the what you dont want to keep and Keeping the best. Veggie farms, Cull means Over-ripe, Sheep Means not producing,not having twins or not lambing, keep the best producers and let the others go, Cattle as well, ( some choose to send them to sales) Horses, Mare doesnt cross with the stallion you stand, you sell her and purchase hopefully one that does, If not sell her and try again. You put so much into promotion of the stallion, so you have to get what crosses on him the best. Cull-Its not Killing! It just means moving things along.

It's all about money for some.. They could care less about the horse. One of the stallions I have here (just got) was sent to a top trainer in TX to be fit for the paint world. The woman told me the trainer said they really get pushed and this and that might happen. Well, he was foundered.. She said no hard feelings and they were glad he didn't die. He did get reserve world chanpion two years in a row.. WOW.. Thank God he did not die.. This is promoted by the associations and is no secret.. Good LORD.....

Here it would mean both ways. I know alot of people that cull their hounds and they kill them. They could give them away to homes but instead kill them. They dont want bad hunters out there with their name/bloodlines on them. Its crazy, As for cows it would be sell or butcher. And horses it would be for the most part take to the auction.