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 HELP!!!

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Kidd Kuhlmann

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Number of posts : 942
Age : 35
Location : Hempstead, TX
Registration date : 2007-02-12

PostSubject: HELP!!!   March 2nd 2007, 8:36 pm

Okay - here's the story.
3yo AQHA filly off the track (no funny business, no drugs). She is up to date on shots and is on a regular de-worming rotation.
January - Kept in stall and small turn out - looks okay, a little gangly but okay, looks like maybe going through growth spurt but no visible weight loss.
February 5th - turned out with stud and 3-4 other mares on GREEN pasture, still being fed 2x per day.
March 2nd - Filly looks like death! Ribs showing, back showing muscle gone!!! Other horses in same pasture look fine, no ribs, no muscle loss, fat and sassy.

***I leased this filly to a very capable horse person, she is being fed and taken care of***

Vet is going out on Monday...Going to draw blood and run a fecal...BUT, what the heck is it?!!?!?
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Lynn M.

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Number of posts : 1034
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 2nd 2007, 9:29 pm

has she ever been turned out before? I had a mare I bought that was in great shape even a little fat tried to turn her out in a large grass pasture 20 acres w/other horses but she had never (9 yr old mare) lived out of a stall and just worried herself sick being turned out in a pasture. Couldn't be out in anything bigger than a small paddock... went down hill pretty fast was- TB mother x QH sire. Only other guess would be you're on the right track and definately need a vet to check her out. Keep us posted Im curious... Good luck I hope its nothing serious!
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SilverBuckleHorses

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Number of posts : 636
Age : 29
Location : Morristown, AZ
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 3rd 2007, 11:34 am

I really hope that it's not why my little pally colt just went through, it's a really rare disease, but, the loss of back muscle so quickly really worries me. Just something you might want to be educated on if the vet says it's a muscle or auto immune problem. They diagnosed my colt with Immune-Mediated Myopathies. It is caused from the horse's immune system attacking it's own muscle, like it would attack a cell from a cold, etc. It's something that can happen very quickly, my colt lost over 80lbs in under three days, just from muscle tissue alone. He was fine in all other aspects, just weak and lethargic because he was using so much energy to get around.
I would find it hard to believe that the stress would cause muscle loss, weight loss, yes, but the muscle loss in that quick of a time is what would have me very worried. This disorder is very dominant in quarter horses too, it has only been studied in five or six other horses in different breeds. Does she have any adema on the underside of her belly, even as far down as her hock or lower? If it is this, my guess would be that her protien levels are probably going to be on the low side, but, because she's on pasture and what she's being fed is going to effect that. If she's on alfalfa, it's going to be a little higher.
If it is infact the immune disorder, be ready for a slow recovery of about two-three months. They would put her on a heavy dose of steroids for about six days (probably DEX) and then start the weaning off process by gradually decreasing a dosage of prednizone or something similar over about four weeks. They would also probably have you put her on a weeks round of penicilin, because the point of the steroids is to build the muscle back and temporarily supress the immune system, which is a good and a bad thing. It's good because the supression will delay any further muscle loss, but it's a bad thing because when you supress the immune system, you open them up for a higher susceptance to infection. The penicilin will counteract that.
The other thing you will be warned about is that steroids have a chance of causing the horse laminitis, so if she ever does go on steroids, I reccomend check the temperature in her legs and feet DAILY, because the longer it goes on, the harder it is to treat and the longer she'll be in pain. I really hope it is something like stress, that can just be remidied with time and a new living situation, but like I said, for her to drop that muscle mass that quick really has me worried. The other question I have, is she vaccinated against strangyles? There's a new type of strangyles out that is depositing strands of strangyles in the muscle mass, I don't know much about it yet, there haven't been hardly any cases reported yet, and even fewer studied. So, if your vet is leaning towards the auto immune disorder, I would have them run a test for strangyles just to be safe, it will tell you if she has been exposed to it or has it.
I'm really anxious to find out what your vet will think. Just curious, has she been tying up at all? I'll be praying it's something really simple, like stress. If it is or isn't let us know Smile There aren't many articles about the auto immune problem on the net, I know because I've looked over all of them and most are a lot of technical jargon that takes some picking through. I did find a really great article through my vet and if it is that, let me know and I will fax or mail it to you.
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Cindy

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Number of posts : 871
Age : 46
Location : HOUSTON TX
Registration date : 2007-02-07

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 6th 2007, 12:59 am

I've seen what the secondary strangels strain can do and it is UGLY! My
friends paint came down with and it has taken over a year to rehab him.
He was massive, like 1200 pounds and he dropped to a skeleton, almost
died!



I hope your filly is okay.

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SilverBuckleHorses

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Number of posts : 636
Age : 29
Location : Morristown, AZ
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 6th 2007, 10:36 am

Yea, and it's really so scary because it's much harder to treat and diagnose than your average case of strangyles. You're talking muscle biopsy tests, lots of blood, then figuring out a treatment plan the horse will react too, from what I've read about it, it tends not to be the most reactive disease to medications, period. It's really nasty, makes me want to go vaccinate ALL my horses against strangyles, even the ones I don't show.
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Lynn M.

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Number of posts : 1034
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 6th 2007, 4:01 pm

Everything I own gets vaccinated against strangles that is one nasty disease delt with it once never want to ever have to see it again..... it is well with the small amout it costs to vaccinate to prevent vs the large vet bills once you are stuck with the horrible very contageous disease.
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Kidd Kuhlmann

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Number of posts : 942
Age : 35
Location : Hempstead, TX
Registration date : 2007-02-12

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 6th 2007, 4:13 pm

She has been vaccinated for everything. She is due for shots at the end of this month. Vet wasn't able to get out yesterday (some emergency calls)...and according to the Leasee the filly has gained a little weight over the past week...I'll see her again on Friday so I'll let you know if she really is looking better! The vet is still on schedule to come out so we shall see!

She was out on pasture when I bought her as a short 2yo, this is her 4yo year. After her 2yo season she was turned out for 3 months before going back in training for her 3yo season.

While in race training she did have some issues with her stomach and with tying up. She never coliced or anything like that she was just a little finiky sometimes. We ended up putting her on daily electrolites and also gave her a extra a before a race or work just to make sure she was hydrated.
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SilverBuckleHorses

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Number of posts : 636
Age : 29
Location : Morristown, AZ
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 7th 2007, 11:05 am

Well, if she hasn't tied up recently while just hanging out, I don't see any relevance to this situation, so that's really good. A LOT of horses in heavy training have a tendency to tie up, they call it the Monday morning blues. With these horses their bodies are so conditioned to exercise and movement, it's very odd for them to have a whole day off, and usually if these horses are more chronic (I say that very loosely, because the actual chronic form isn't the monday morning blues kind of deal, it's actually chronic when their bodies can't process sugar correctly.) they get worked seven days a week and that fixes the problem, they just can't get that off day. If she's been vaccinated against strangyles, that's great, one less thing to worry about. The same vaccination guards against the new strand of strangyles, so no worries there. I can't wait to hear what the vet has to say.
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SilverBuckleHorses

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Number of posts : 636
Age : 29
Location : Morristown, AZ
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 10th 2007, 11:36 am

Any news from the vet, or did he get out there yet?
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Kidd Kuhlmann

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Number of posts : 942
Age : 35
Location : Hempstead, TX
Registration date : 2007-02-12

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 10th 2007, 11:46 am

Vet hasn't been out yet...least I don't think so. I checked in on her yesterday and she is looking a little better, not much but a little.

I have a new theory though---I think she got run completely ragged by the old mares and the stud. While I was there one of the real fatties was pushing her all over the pasture with the filly getting one bite of grass every few minutes. I think they are just picking on her and that probably caused her to weaken and maybe get a little sick and now she is just trying to recover. I'm going to suggest that she be kept in at night and turned out during the day, that way she has a safe place to eat!
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SilverBuckleHorses

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Number of posts : 636
Age : 29
Location : Morristown, AZ
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 10th 2007, 12:01 pm

Definetly a good posibility, horses go through the strangest things. I've seen the pecking order in action too, and sometimes it can be a lot worse than what everyone realizes. No matter what happens, I hope everything works out great for you.
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7cedars



Number of posts : 1667
Registration date : 2007-02-08

PostSubject: Re: HELP!!!   March 10th 2007, 5:54 pm

Might want to check for ulcers, too.
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