SBR Formula One - Foals arriving!! Dun or Dunskin Filly

Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

So basically what you are saying is that a Dunskin carries a cream gene and a Dun does not.

suncolorsranch · Number of posts: 16 Age: 30 Location: Ramona, CA Registration date: 2009-03-10

Mare wrote:

So basically what you are saying is that a Dunskin carries a cream gene and a Dun does not.

LOL LOL LOL....you are even better at suming things up. Thanks. Yap-er-doo! Very Happy

reiningfan

Yup, Mare, that was an excellent summation.
Duns and buckskins may look very similar, but genetically they are two totally different things. AQHA needs to recognize that horses like SCR's stallion carry both genes. Otherwise there can be a lot of mix ups when it comes to registering foals. Just because some registries do not yet recognize certain colors, does not mean they don't genetically exist.

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Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

Where with a Dunalino they would carry the dun gene along with a cream. And a Pali just carries a cream. My gosh I feel like I just had a light bulb moment! Now Bluejay is it easier to understand? I have a bay mare that has a dorsel but her mom (grey) throws a dorsel on almost every foal. So if I bred my Bay mare to a Dunskin or Dun would that give me a better chance of getting a Dunskin or Dun since she has counter shading?

reiningfan

Dunalino is a when a horse carries both dun and palomino. Dunskin is dun and buckskin. The difference is that buckskin is a black based color and palomino is red based.
I don't think counter shading is any indicator of possible color production. But I don't think there has been much research in that area.

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Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

Thank you for your help. Someday I'm gonna understand all of this Laughing

Bluejay · Number of posts: 2249 Age: 53 Location: Oregon Registration date: 2007-02-08

NO WAY MARE.. Things will change on ya by the time you get it figured out.. Rolling Eyes

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Merikle Waters

Bluejay wrote:

NO WAY MARE.. Things will change on ya by the time you get it figured out.. Rolling Eyes

Only thing that coudl change would be info on counter shading, as they have been much more interested on getting genetic tests out for new diseases like HERDA, GBED and the like. As well as roan, grey and dun.

Bay Horse + Creme = Buckskin
Bay Horse + Creme + Dun = Dunskin
Red Horse + Creme = Palomino
Red Horse + Creme + Dun = Dunalino
Black Horse + Creme = Smokey Black
Black Horse + Creme + Dun = Smokey Grullo

Here is a smokey grullo tobiano stallion I know, he is genetically capable of producing buckskins, palomino's and smokey black's on mares without creme gene's, as well as producing duns, red duns, and grullo/grulla's on mares without the dun modifier.

http://www.widneypaints.com/stallions.html

here is one of his dunskin fillies (genetically tested Wink

)

here is my dunskin filly (sold as a weaner, now coming 4)

Without genetic testing I can say she is Ee/Aa/Dd/CcrCr Because dad is tested ee/aa/CcrCr (Pally), and mom is not light enough to be dunskin herself, and has thrown a chestnut colt. Meaning mom is Ee/Aa/Dd/CrCr

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Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

I love the color. When I had mine tested I couldnt even understand it. When I got it back I had to go on a forum and ask what it ment. Someday I will get it, I was horrible at science.

Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

Merikle, have you thought about writing a book called " Color for Dummies" Laughing

And a plain Dun is what?

Merikle Waters

Mare wrote:

Merikle, have you thought about writing a book called " Color for Dummies" Laughing

And a plain Dun is what?

You know honestly, its always gonna be easy for some, and hard for others. Just like everything else Wink

. I am horrible at math, pretty much any form beyond the basics, always have been and pretty sure I always will be. Thats all you gotta think of it as Smile

I would love to write out a book like that... maybe some day Razz

I think the biggest problem for people is when we get into shades, and being able to identify what that shades are. A sorrel is often something different in someone's mind than what a chestnut is. However, they are still red, just different shades Wink

Thats why I almost always refer to them as "red" when giving some insight on color genetics, so people dont have to have any more words to be confuzzled by Laughing

Duns are pretty simple. It is a modifier that like creme lightens the color coat. Only real difference when it comes to the lightening effect of the dun modifier is that dun does make quite a color change most of the time on black based horses without agouti. It also does not double up in lightening when a horse is homozygous for it like it does in horses homozygous for creme. It may create a slightly different shade, but we aren't that far into the dun gene and its quirks yet Wink

So -
Black Horse + Dun = Grullo
Red Horse + Dun = Red Dun
Black Horse + Agouti (Bay horse) + Dun = Dun or "bay dun".

People find a lot of confusion when you get into the dun/bay dun stuff. Often they lack the supporting information to be able to figure out that Horse number 1 is actually just a dun, because it has very little black on its legs.

The shades in bays are often listed with their own agouti genetic codes, however I cannot remember them off the top of my head (wasn't that important when I learnt it I guess! Smile

)

Here is an excerpt from
http:://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/colors/bay.html To save me some typing Wink

Standard Bay: Red body with black points; body does not have any black or smutty coloration.
Blood Bay: Dark blood-red color, sometimes almost purple.
Mahogany bay: Brown red, with some black mixed into coat.
Copper bay: Orange-red body.
Golden bay: Yellowish body.

A Wild bay; Note the black on the legs is restricted and is only visible around the coronet and on the fetlocks.

Wild Bay: a bay with minimal black points; usually black on legs only comes up to fetlocks. Sometimes called a "faded" bay.

Seal brown horses are actually caused by the Agouti gene, too, but are considered a different color than bay, because the gene is a different allele than that which causes regular bay (although some breed registries lump seal brown in with bay).

My dun mare taffy is a variation of a wild bay, with a dun modifier. Her black even reaches higher than most wild bays does.

I will see if I can dig up some more info on the different genetic codes for all the different bays Smile

Taffy, notice how the black leg markings are not so normal (She threw the dunskin filly I posted earlier... she has the same leg markings)

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Triple J Quarter Horses

Mare wrote:

I love the color. When I had mine tested I couldnt even understand it. When I got it back I had to go on a forum and ask what it ment. Someday I will get it, I was horrible at science.

Hee Hee, I dont care! Whats the point! They will be what they will be. Unless you breed to a double creme. Then you will get creme, otherwise its all 50-50. Surprises are fun. Laughing

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Merikle Waters

Triple J Quarter Horses wrote:

Mare wrote:

I love the color. When I had mine tested I couldnt even understand it. When I got it back I had to go on a forum and ask what it ment. Someday I will get it, I was horrible at science.

Hee Hee, I dont care! Whats the point! They will be what they will be. Unless you breed to a double creme. Then you will get creme, otherwise its all 50-50. Surprises are fun. Laughing

All you need for color is yellow and you're good to go Wink

Gotta love the yellow horses! Very Happy

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Triple J Quarter Horses

Now I like a pretty Bucky. But I have to admit, I do love Yella! ITs that White mane and tail. I like the way Double Cremes Surprise you. Never owned one, but it sure makes it 100%. Single creme will you just never know. Now, get this. My only mare I have bred has done this. She is a light sorrel with a flaxen mane and tail. Only a star

Bred to a Cherry Red sorrel, Only white on his face. Got 2 foals from her, Both Cherry Red and white on the face NO white on legs.

Bred to a sorrel with a blazed faced, flaxen mane and tail. White on legs. Got, flaxen mane and tail, with chrome and a full blaze.

Bred to 2 differant Palominos, 3 times, have gotten 3 palominos. Wink

Breeding her to a red roan in April. Sooo Heres hoping she does her thing.

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Mare · Number of posts: 500 Age: 47 Location: Montana Registration date: 2007-04-17

And that would be that dang colt everyone thought was Pali and ended up Buckskin. Thats the only one I have ever had tested. I thought Buckskin and everyone told me Pali. (including my vet). Really looked like a Fjord.

I think its getting time for up dates on these new babies. That would mean new pictures. I bet they have all changed so much already.

SBR Formula One - Foals arriving!! **Dun or Dunskin Filly**

SBR Formula One - Foals arriving!! **Dun or Dunskin Filly**

SBR Formula One - Foals arriving!! Dun or Dunskin Filly

SBR Formula One - Foals arriving!! Dun or Dunskin Filly